Is being gay wrong?

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I frankly don't care whether homosexuality is the result of biological compulsions or individual choice. As with any other human sexual act, if its done between consenting adults (short of that which involves death) then there should be no problem.
Sean, can you come up with any non-religious reasons why homosexuality is wrong?

And....here we go again.

Yes, this is a hot topic and I also think this should be put in the mature forum. I will now and in the future try to input the words "my opinion", and "I think" into my paragraphs.

I second on the not liking the numerous comparisons between Aspergers and Homosexuality here. it seems to be flung around
like the word 'Homophobe' which I take as a cheap insult.

So NO, I don't think they should be punished by society with attacks and imprisonment but I don't think they should be able to gain civil rights as a culture. It is my opinion that the sexual acts between a couple of the same sex do not potentially create the possability to further life. I also believe that the sexual organs are not made to fit together properly and naturally as loving, beautiful, fertile instruments of human procreation. So therefore, I don't accept the practise as normal or right for human kind.

However, I believe that in some cases that humans are born incomplete and flawed compared to the norm. Maybe Aspies are flaws, maybe they are a step up, who knows... At least Aspies can mate and give birth to children. There are examples of hermaphrodites, men with too many female hormones, females with too many female hormones, some people are born with no sexual organs at all. I think they are human design flaws but should be allowed to carry on living. Let them carry on their habits but keep them out of public view and don't force the majority to accept them.

What I really despise is the idea that the society should be forced or coerced into accepting the gay scene as a normal, natural kin as heterosexuality with similar rights. I can't agree that giving gays rights to take on vows of marriage, adopt children and perform other traditional heterosexual practises. I think gays need to make up their OWN rights and practises and stop trying to utilize straight customs.

Most arguements that I have are NOT AGAINST GAYS EXISTING OR CARRYING ON THEIR WAY OF HAVING SEX. My beefs more revolve around homosexuals (and gay rights supporters)
wanting their ideals and practises to be accepted as a normal culture.

Any of you can call me hateful or whatever. I have heard many of the same, common insulting sentances many times over. I have made the mistake of not putting "I think" or "it is my opinion that", in my past words, making them appear forceful. It is not my idea to force what I think on anyone. It is more to educate them of my opinion and my findings on these matters. It is very possible that my opinions can change based on further education and dialogue. I am open to discussion, however I would like to avoid situations with
personal attacks and common slurs.

And for the record, I know some gay people. I talk to them, joke around with them and they know my position. I make it clear that it is their habits and sexual preference that I don't agree with, NOT their personality.

why? seems to me that you're the only one who's said anythnig heated so far, sean. everyone else is expressing their opinion in a calm way.

and being gay is perfectly normal. if anyone is going to talk about the "diversity of humanity which includes AS cos we're not disabled, we're just different" stuff, you might want to bear in mind the hypocrisy if you're saying being gay is abnormal.

anyway, politically, being gay, having AS, being black or older seem to have a common theme, n'est ce pas?

As far as I'm concerned, being gay is not a choice someone makes. You can choose whether or not you ACT upon this, but you cannot choose, deep in your brain, whether you're gay, straight, or somewhere in between.

Even if you don't "agree" with the gay lifestyle, why be vitriolic and defensive about it? I don't see anyone attacking the straight lifestyle. I agree with what Vetivert said. Denying people basic rights based on something like who you're sexually/emotionally attracted to is stupid.

I don't get how all these anti gay people have "lots of gay friends". Are they just laughing at you behind your back?

Because those people don't claim to be anti-gay.

However it is sad the amount of homophobia that goes around in real life, despite the media pretending it hardly exists, I hear homophobia everywhere I go. The worst place is in the schoolyard, and I ended up being a homophobic too because I heard it so much it seemed like the normal thing.

However, even if someone chose to be gay, it doesn't matter, it's their own business and there's much worse things that someone can be other than they're sexuality.

One thing I've learned since I left school is that, whether it's racism, homophobia or just bullying, putting people down/discriminating doesn't do anyone any good. Any enjoyment you get out of the suffering of others isn't worth it and the world would be a much better place if we didn't do it. If they're not directly harming you and you just have a personal predjudice then you should get over it. Thankfully, most people become more accepting when you get older (ie. before leaving school) which is a complete relief.

That's not to say that I don't understand why schoolkids are afraid to not be homophobic because of the fear of being accused of being gay themselves. And the best advice i can give is... avoid the issue whenever possible.

Whether the discussion is heated or calm, the topic of whether homosexuality is right or wrong is inherently a matter of politics, religion and personal philosophy. I've moved the thread to PP&R.

I think it's up to them. It's their life, if they want to mess around with people of the same gender, let them be and mind your own business. That's the standpoint I live by.

Of course, I have nothing against those who are against homosexuals. That's their decision and I'm sure they have better reasons other than "they're weird".

Does anyone else think the poll options are phrased in a way that skews the answers?

I'll get back to everyone's posts here later.

Homosexuality isn't in the DSM-IV because it's not a mental disorder; that is, something that disrupts mood, thinking, or social ability. Being gay is a sexual tendency. AS is in the DSM-IV because it creates distinct thinking processes and social interaction issues. Other than that, though, AS and homosexuality have a lot in common, especially in the way their effects can sometimes cause exclusion from general society.

From my point of view there's nothing at all wrong with being gay. It's pretty clear that homosexuality has no ill effect on the world at large. And letting ~10% of the world's population be free to choose who they can love is an unimaginably great thing for society to accomplish.

Here goes....

Sean, Homosexualality was removed from the DSM-3 due not only to new advances in psychiatry, as well as the fact that a gay APA member testified before the APA at the conference that the Decision to remove homosexuality from being classified as psychopathology.

This psychiatrist had to speak to the conference in DISGUISE due to the fact that he could have his APA certification revoked due to the fact that he was gay.



Firstly, Sir, Lets tackle the latter part of the paragraph. I as well as about 99% of the gay people that I know DO NOT condone pedophilia in any form. The Catholic church, on the other hand, HAS condoned it within it's rank of priests ,albeit secretly for undreds of years. It is now making half hearted attempts to reevaluate it's position on the matter, due to the attention that it has brought them for the past 10 years.

Secondly, although I, personally do not in any way involve myself in BDSM behavior, you should be well appraised of the fact that majority of people that practice it are STRAGHT. That being said, I know a few people that do indulge in it, (straight and gay) and am of the opinion that that if people find something in this behaviour, and if it occurs amongst consenting adults, who am I to judge what they do?

For what it's worth, the term "S&M" or 'Sado-Masochism" descends from from the names of the Marquis Donatien Alphonse Francois de Sade, as well as Baron Leopld Von Sacher-Masoch (1836-1895) . Both of whom I may add were STRAIGHT.

If you had been in charge of security at that meeting, I have the succinct feeling that what would have happened would have been more or less a repeat of the actions that went down in Boston Mass, on March 5, 1770, as well as fallout that could be much worse over the ten or so years after that event. --Fags after all, cannot seceed from the union, we are are part of it whether you like it or not. --Recall, if you will what almost happened during the Stonewall Riots.

Would you be willing to take on the responsibilty for anything adverse that may occur?



There is no comparison between ASD's and homosexuality in the fact that Homosexuality was removed by the APA as a pathology, whilst ASD's on the other hand are still considered hot topics of neuropathology. You may also not know this, but Left handed people were stigmatised in Western Society as recently as the last century. and are still stigmatised in Islamic society today. Whilst there are no direct comparisons between ASD's , there are parellells in the fact that there are social stigmas still attached to it by people who choose to remain ignorant and superstitious of reality. Homosexuality can be controlled by the use of ingrained cultural aversions to it, and then quality of life suffers as well. How would you feel if I made you feel bad about wanting to love, and get married to a girl of your choice, not only telling you that it was 'Scripturally wrong' , but by squandering Tax Dollars to insure that you could never marry? Wouldn't you be pissed about that? --You cannot even begin to fathom the resentment I bear when people such as yourself do the same to me.



I know, I live in a state full of religious ---holes who seem to have no shortage of time to point this out, as well as squander taxpayers money to help keep this in place, whilst actively going to, and making money off of an endless supply of Porno stores and Strip clubs. Meanwhile, people such as myself have to deal with carreer limitations, as well as the chance of being fired from work because of the fact that we're gay. --This last bit, no doubt is all done in the name of 'Christian Compassion' . A further parallell between this is drawn between 'Aversion Therapy' for those who are ASDx'd and those who are gay. Do you see any parellells ?

By the way, I have absolutely ZERO tolerance for the Psychic Vampirism inherant in the guilt tripping, and scare tactics that Evangelical Christians resort to in order to recruit new members to their cause. Show me a case of Gay people doing the same.



Gay people do NOT account for any great percentage of sex crimes. --Show me the statistics, as well as the resources that fielded them?Striaght people on the other hand are more likely to commit a sex crime than gay people.

Secondly You are partly right in the fact that Gay accounted for a great percentage of STD's in America during the 80's. The reason why is that a visible minority of gay people were pissed off at 'normal' society for being repressed, and used sex as a means of saying 'f--- you' to 'normal society'. Hence the rapid spread of HIV through the gay community during this time.

However, the 1960's and 1970's were the height of the sexual revolution, and many more straight people than gay people were likely to come down with an STD. Furthermore, I also seem to know of more straight people than gay people that have Genital Herpes.

Also lets consider the fact that the majority of new HIV cases in the USA are now amongst straight people, which incidentally, is the normal manner of transmission throughout Africa and Asia.

Furthermore, I would like to say that if you're angered or insulted by anything that I've said here, that was not my intention. However, I cannot sit idly by when I, or people such as myself are slandered in this manner.

***GIVES FOGMAN A STANDING OVATION***

I'm sure you all know me well enough to be able to guess my stance on this. So I'll just content myself with saying discrimination and abuse on the basis of sexual orientation is every bit as inexcusable as discrimination of the grounds of gender, race - or neurological make up.

Personally, I don't give a crap about the issue of whether homosexuality is wrong (which clearly I don't agree with) - I have no business judging someone else's consensual activities - AND NEITHER HAS ANYONE ELSE. Live and let live - I get so sick of judgmental people.

Dunc

duncvis, darn fracking straight.

(yes, I do like Battlestar Galactica)

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Last edited by Ante on 09 Nov 2005, 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dunc, you put exactly what I was gonna put.......


In any case, I now simply put SEE ABOVE.

have just had the time to go back and read all the posts properly, so...

gosh, sean - you don't half spout a load of twaddle.

fogman - you're a star! lucid, comprehensive, calm and factual. what a refreshing change to all the drivel from the homophobes.

dunc - well, i'm obviously going to agree with you, as usual.

and everyone else's posts (with the obvious exception) were interesting to read too (in case you're feeling left out).