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gwenevyn
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26 Aug 2007, 10:24 pm

skafather84 wrote:
gwenevyn wrote:
When you have a limited amount of funds, there is only so much you can do to help in a nation where millions of people are neglected and dying.


if she had limited funds then she wouldn't have been able to open up so many convents world wide. the money was given to the vatican and was generally spent on other things than the hospices where people went to die. she took money from crooked governments too. i guess blood money is still green for her and her ilk.


I have heard rumors of these accusations but I have yet to see documented evidence coming from any reasonably trustworthy news source. Would you be able to link us up with anything?



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26 Aug 2007, 10:30 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
gwenevyn wrote:
When you have a limited amount of funds, there is only so much you can do to help in a nation where millions of people are neglected and dying.


if she had limited funds then she wouldn't have been able to open up so many convents world wide. the money was given to the vatican and was generally spent on other things than the hospices where people went to die. she took money from crooked governments too. i guess blood money is still green for her and her ilk.


I have heard rumors of these accusations but I have yet to see documented evidence coming from any reasonably trustworthy news source. Would you be able to link us up with anything?



there's no paper trail because they never posted what money they took in.


you can try asking the vatican how much money they've taken in but most people get denied.


the fact of the matter is that she was with many high profile people both of ill fame and of pretty decent reputation and they all gave large sums of money.



gwenevyn
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26 Aug 2007, 10:34 pm

skafather84 wrote:

there's no paper trail because they never posted what money they took in.


you can try asking the vatican how much money they've taken in but most people get denied.


the fact of the matter is that she was with many high profile people both of ill fame and of pretty decent reputation and they all gave large sums of money.


I have no doubt that such things happen. It was a great disillusionment to me, in my volunteer work, when I discovered that the people running the orphanage were engaging in fraud and money laundering. But I also know that not all places are like that. I met many good, honest people trying to help. I still don't think it's prudent for us to be maligning Mother Theresa based on evidence we have not seen, and which has not been reported (to my knowledge) by any respectable news source.



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26 Aug 2007, 10:43 pm

gwenevyn wrote:
skafather84 wrote:

there's no paper trail because they never posted what money they took in.


you can try asking the vatican how much money they've taken in but most people get denied.


the fact of the matter is that she was with many high profile people both of ill fame and of pretty decent reputation and they all gave large sums of money.


I have no doubt that such things happen. It was a great disillusionment to me, in my volunteer work, when I discovered that the people running the orphanage were engaging in fraud and money laundering. But I also know that not all places are like that. I met many good, honest people trying to help. I still don't think it's prudent for us to be maligning Mother Theresa based on evidence we have not seen, and which has not been reported (to my knowledge) by any respectable news source.



i think the body of work speaks for itself. underfunded hospices (places for people to die and receive comfort while dying...not receiving treatment or help). and well-funded convents and brotherhoods founded in her name and the name of her organization.


really, if i were one to really be trying to run an effective charity, i'd be spending more money for the dying people and less on recruitment (that's supposed to be the vatican's job, anyways).


as far as money laundering and what not...i have no clue...the records are kept secret by the vatican banks and her charity wasn't required to publicly post their income in india (the only charity to get such a privilege). i think there's a lot of dubious circumstances surrounding the operations and enough to at least be very skeptical and critical of how the work was done and how money was allocated.


her personal views on suffering bringing her closer to divinity just makes her look like a sadist....which i still can't wrap my head around how else she could be meaning such things.

with regards to your comment on all places...i'm not implying that all places are corrupt...but i certainly do think that mother theresa and her organization deserves every bit of scrutiny it receives.



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26 Aug 2007, 11:44 pm

Pugly wrote:
I don't and didn't really follow what Mother Teresa is about... but anyone who confesses beliefs publicly but internally does not believe them... just a liar. There was probably great pressure on her to say these things... but anyone who wants to experience the sort of suffering she wanted to suffer... should have dealt with the public suffering of being honest...

Easy for me to say... sitting here in Wisconsin, lazy and doing nothing...

I'd rather be honest and do nothing, than a liar and do good works... but that's just me.


well. . the letters don't say she didn't believe, they say she was affected by not being able to feel the presence of God near her and found it painful there was no communication between she and her deity, and she was mostly waiting for that feeling again.



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26 Aug 2007, 11:53 pm

She wanted reaffirmation, and when it didn't come, the doubts grew even more. I guess that's what can happen when you aren't able to communicate physically with a deity, and have to hope that your prayers are being acknowledged.


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26 Aug 2007, 11:55 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
well. . the letters don't say she didn't believe, they say she was affected by not being able to feel the presence of God near her and found it painful there was no communication between she and her deity, and she was mostly waiting for that feeling again.


Yeah, I'm not going to go into her deep beliefs. Those are between her and God.

But being honest is very important to me... and when I read that there is a disconnect between what she feels and what she is expressing on the outside... my respect goes down a few shades. People I hold in high esteem need to have honesty about what they say and what they are really thinking...

But really I don't know... she could have been forced to say such thing for tactical reasons... it's not good for someone in that position to speak of doubts about God. It's honest... but in a politics PR game... not so great.


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27 Aug 2007, 12:32 am

The_Chosen_One wrote:
She wanted reaffirmation, and when it didn't come, the doubts grew even more. I guess that's what can happen when you aren't able to communicate physically with a deity, and have to hope that your prayers are being acknowledged.


When I read the letter, it said that Jesus told her to go to Calcutta and minister to the wretched, and I guess after having the big guy be job councilor, everything else was down hill after that. I just remember a poignant Joan of Arc via Shaw's play being bewildered that her voices had abandoned her. Heck, wasn't Jesus quoted as saying "my god my god why hast thou forsaken me?" maybe it just goes with the territory...

not being a christian, I wouldn't know.


Merle



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27 Aug 2007, 12:39 am

sinsboldly wrote:
When I read the letter, it said that Jesus told her to go to Calcutta and minister to the wretched, and I guess after having the big guy be job councilor, everything else was down hill after that. I just remember a poignant Joan of Arc via Shaw's play being bewildered that her voices had abandoned her. Heck, wasn't Jesus quoted as saying "my god my god why hast thou forsaken me?" maybe it just goes with the territory...

not being a christian, I wouldn't know.


Merle


I don't know either... I am a Christian but I've never felt God talk to me. In fact it's probably very disturbing to have what you think is a religious experience, and to have it all fade away.

I've never put much stock in those who say they've felt God touch their lives like he is speaking to them... visions and such things... I've never seen God do that. And I suspect more often than not, it's a source of manipulation by greedy preachers.


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Wonder what it feels like to be in love?
How would you describe it, like a push or shove?
Guess I could pretend that this is all I need
Wanting more than what I have might appear as greed.


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27 Aug 2007, 12:48 am

Raggy will tell you all about how he met God when he was three.... that's only if you let him, that is... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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