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MaxE
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28 Aug 2024, 8:47 pm

I apologize for the terse comment, but in short, I would not prefer to be a man in a primitive society or an animal of any sort, nor do I wish a return to the world of 50 years ago that I experienced as a young man. Perhaps it's just that people have so much more information. Now we know enough about gender issues that we can no longer plead ignorance. Doesn't make me feel less of a man, if that matters.


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cyberdad
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29 Aug 2024, 3:31 am

naturalplastic wrote:
Oddly enough there maybe a connection between both. Some say that the fall of the male of the species can be traced all of the way back to the invention of agriculture and the demise of the hunting/gathering way of life. And some say that the Eden story is actually about that. Adam and Eve lived as part of nature "in the garden", but then were forced to earn their living by "the sweat of his brow" by pushing a plow, and submitting to authority of the other humans.

Maybe. Thats one interpretation of the maddeningly puzzling Eden story.


On the right track. Genesis 2:15-17: “The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

I interpret this to mean that in Eden, man and woman lived in harmony with nature, but when they gained knowledge it led to the fall of man. Same with the renaissance and industrialisation, due to the benefits of modernisation man became free of the bondage of land and became liberated through education. But in this freedom he has eaten from the tree of knowledge. I imagine all of this will come full circle when AI does everything for us and man (and woman) will sit around watching netflix all day.



cyberdad
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29 Aug 2024, 3:34 am

MaxE wrote:
I apologize for the terse comment, but in short, I would not prefer to be a man in a primitive society or an animal of any sort, nor do I wish a return to the world of 50 years ago that I experienced as a young man. Perhaps it's just that people have so much more information. Now we know enough about gender issues that we can no longer plead ignorance. Doesn't make me feel less of a man, if that matters.


I am not meaning that we return to the pre-industrial dark ages. I am certain even Freud, Jung or Nietzsche would have wanted that either. I am referring to the inevitable consequences of modern life when the biggest challenge for modern man is what to order on Uber eats.



MaxE
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29 Aug 2024, 5:11 am

Most men face bigger challenges than what to order from Uber Eats. Some might even want to tackle meal preparation on their own.

I think women may be in a similar situation. Young people born female (I'm not talking about trans people here) refuse to present as female because of a fraught relationship with feminine norms as they understand them.


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cyberdad
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29 Aug 2024, 5:31 pm

MaxE wrote:
Most men face bigger challenges than what to order from Uber Eats. Some might even want to tackle meal preparation on their own.

Bigger challenges, yes, although it depends on individual circumstance, biggest challenge is employment, followed by relationships, health and education (the order might vary depending if you are immigrant or local).
Food prep has changed. We used to spend 70-80% of our lives hunting food for hundreds of thousands of years. Now we hunt for food either in Walmart or Ubereats.



cyberdad
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29 Aug 2024, 5:33 pm

MaxE wrote:
I think women may be in a similar situation. Young people born female (I'm not talking about trans people here) refuse to present as female because of a fraught relationship with feminine norms as they understand them.


Women have various options (including but not restricted to) the one you point out. In the corporate sector women can still follow feminine norms. It's not either/or.