Israel and Iran ‘A fork in the road’

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that's about as logical as the US giving back their country to native Americans.

I will take your refusal to acknowledge any of the extremely basic arguments I gave (Muslim solidarity, desecration of holy sites, etc) and assume it to mean you have no counter except "Nah you're wrong, I'm right."

People should take note of which arguments Zionists use to explain the motivations of anti-Zionists. Iran supposedly hates Israel because of the Shah and anti-Semitism and nothing else. Zionists can get away with believing and spreading this nonsense because most Americans don't know Middle East history beyond what they hear on the news or learn in Sunday School. Any attempts to explain other reasons why Iranians might hate Israel are dismissed without any attempt at explanation.

For a counter-example to Iran, consider how Zionists respond to anti-Zionism from South Africa. How come I never hear Zionists say: "They just hate Israel because Israeli supported the white apartheid regime! They're so petty!" Zionists don't say that, because that would involve calling attention to Israeli policies that they desperately want you to forget. Ergo, South Africans are painted as just being bigoted anti-Semites. "They're all just hateful meanies who hate Israel and Jews even though Israel never EVER did anything bad to them!"

Ditto for Zimbabweans. And Algerians. And any number of other indigenous peoples whose oppression Israel funded and supported, because Israel knows that the indigenous peoples of the world are their natural enemy--even if their public relations industrial complex relentlessly says otherwise.

^So you're saying that the saintly Iranian government acts out of pure moral outrage rather than any sort of self interest? And I think the comparison to SA is specious because SA simply condemned them which is the popular thing to do, also SA is a democracy so the government there is just pandering to their people who would naturally sympathize with Palestinians for what I would consider obvious reasons, but they're not making any sort of sacrifice or commitment.

Iran obviously does not care as much about the Palestinians as they care about their fellow Shi'ites. Hamas never received nearly as much weaponry from Iran as Hezbollah did. And Iran did not attack Israel until after Israel's recent attacks on southern Lebanon, even though the latter weren't nearly as brutal as Israel's war on Gaza over the past year.

Anyhow, Iran is semi-democratic. They do hold elections. They just require that all candidates must be scholars of Islamic law in order to qualify to be on the ballot. Not a place where I would want to live, but they aren't run by a lawless dictator either.

You do realise they (Iran) launched an attack
1. in retaliation for the death of Nasruallah a international terrorist
2. with the intention of killing Jewish civilian targets not the IDF
3. In violation of international law putting international domestic airlines at risk

You can't compare Iran's intentions to Israel. Israel at least did have an objective when they chased HAMAS into Gaza which was to rescue civilian hostages. the United States tried to do the same to Iran when they took US hostages.

Israel's position as a small population existing surrounded by a large hostile Arab population means they developed one of the most efficient anti-terrorism and missile defence systems in the world. You really can't blame Israel for being good at defending themselves. Of course many regimes sort to replicate Israel's systems and in this respect I don't support Israel's decision to provide intelligence and support to the Apartheid regime from 1967 onwards, but they were aligned with (and no different to) British and US policies which also permitted trade and economic support until 1986 when all international western countries signed sanctions.

trying to paint Israel as some type of rogue state doesn't really work.

I'm not sure the UN would agree, Israel regularly ignores international law and rulings based on international law. Israel is as much of a rogue state as one can name.

Hezbollah should thank Israel for having invaded Lebanon in the late 70s/early 80s as they wouldn't exist otherwise. That sort of person lives only for war, they are just like Hamas.

I'm sure they'd rather just not be dealing with the consequences of having been invaded.

Look at some history. The consequences of their having been invaded is that the Christians and Palestinians have now been driven from Southern Lebanon, and they can now do as they bloody well please, like firing missiles at Israel knowing full well that Israel will invade in response. They love it and so does the Iranian government.

Source: Trust me bro, they're all hateful savages.

Their leadership probably all have university degrees but yeah I don't think you truly appreciate the intensity of their hatred because for some reason you seem compelled to defend them.

Were the attendees at the Wannsee conference savages? Apart from the fact that I consider "savage" a racist term I normally never use.

It couldn't possibly be that I think you're exaggerating the degree to which hate is their motivation, it must be that I'm irrationally defending them.

This way you're not obliged to prove that their motives are simple emotionalism and also those who disagree with that take can be dismissed as compelled to defend them, rather than simply having a different perspective.

It's not a matter of emotionalism, I mean the Nazis hated Jews but they weren't what I would call emotional, instead they took a cold methodical approach to acting on that hate. And to me Iran seems basically the same. Just as I can't prove what you claim I was asserting neither can you prove that the Iranian government aren't what I claimed. And saying that people have different perspectives is a pointless truism. Anyway I'm done with this thread.

I'm disputing the idea that all perspectives but your own amount to a defence of Iran.

Saying Iran is motivated by geopolitical ambitions or even a legit dedication to protecting Muslims doesn't amount to defending Iran, it's just saying their motivations aren't a simple as me no lieky duh Jews.

No, it doesn't as long as you think it's perfectly normal for a democratic state to declare the U.N. secretary general Persona Non Grata.