Politics dividing families at Thanksgiving time

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Dox47
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28 Nov 2024, 12:30 pm

One of the more off-putting tendencies of progressives is the constant attempts to avoid the hard work of actually doing politics by using word games to simply redefine their beliefs as not political at all, just basic kindness and human decency, things that would only be opposed by bigots, without actually bothering to prove anything or persuade anyone. The irony is that they probably harm themselves more than anyone, isolating themselves in a never ending purity spiral, convinced that they're the only good ones, it can't be good for their mental health, and the skyrocketing rates of depression, anxiety, and general neuroses on the left tend to bear that out.

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lostonearth35
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28 Nov 2024, 12:31 pm

And that's why it should be called the Divided States.

Last edited by lostonearth35 on 28 Nov 2024, 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dox47
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28 Nov 2024, 12:32 pm

King Kat 1 wrote:

Best way to handle these types of occasions, is to have a no politics rule.

100% agreed. That's a big chunk of why I try and keep my political talk confined to message boards and other places not connected to my actual friends and family, no need for them to know every contour of my beliefs and opinions.

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funeralxempire
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28 Nov 2024, 12:33 pm

Dox47 wrote:

King Kat 1 wrote:

Best way to handle these types of occasions, is to have a no politics rule.

That sounds like you know you stand for some pretty morally repellent things.

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Dox47
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28 Nov 2024, 12:46 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

That sounds like you know you stand for some pretty morally repellent things.

LOL, no, it just means that I don't want to jeopardize relationships that I value with pointless arguments. I'm also a politics nerd, most people find all of that incredibly boring, and the amount of tangents required to explain to normies why I hold some of my beliefs would be tedious for everyone.

Also, why would I hold beliefs that I think are morally repellent? Do you think you have some sort of monopoly on morals?

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funeralxempire
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28 Nov 2024, 12:56 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Also, why would I hold beliefs that I think are morally repellent? Do you think you have some sort of monopoly on morals?

It's got nothing to do with my personal morals, but instead those of the people you interact with.

If you're deeply worried about the people you know finding out what you stand for it seems natural to conclude that you're worried they'd be disgusted by what they find. Why else would you need to conceal what you believe from their judgments?

If it's just like a disagreement over pizza toppings, why does it matter if they find out you prefer peppers over tomatoes?

It's only when people get into views they know others will assess as morally questionable that they start to get uncomfortable having their views scrutinized.

Dox47
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28 Nov 2024, 1:04 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

Do I strike you as someone who is uncomfortable having my views scrutinized? Did I say anything about being "deeply worried" about my friends and family finding out my views? They know I disagree with them about most things political, we just don't talk about those things because we all contain multitudes and there are better things to talk about, you know, normal stuff. It also goes both ways, I could be super judgmental of what those around me believe, but what would be gained by tearing them down over it?

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DuckHairback
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28 Nov 2024, 1:07 pm

I don't know. I don't talk to my parents about politics anymore since my dad went headfirst down the GBNews rabbithole (my mum just parrots what my dad says). If it comes up I steer the conversation away from it.

I can't be bothered. They used to be reasonably sharp people, my dad was always rightwing but had a decent moral compass. Now he just talks about whatever rubbish Jacob Rees-Mogg has been spouting this week.

It makes me sad to talk about politics with them because I see their current level of understanding both as the result of bad information and cognitive decline, so I prefer not to.

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funeralxempire
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28 Nov 2024, 1:21 pm

Dox47 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

You seem uncomfortable having your views scrutinized by the people you know in person, by your own admission.

Would you associate with someone who repeatedly brings up the idea that adults should be allowed to f**k children, or would that be a deal-breaker for remaining close friends with someone?

If that would be too much to not judge someone on, you understand that lines of decency exist and can be crossed. From there it's just a question of what issues represent those lines for yourself and others. Some stances will always be morally repugnant to some others and there's nothing wrong with people having those standards.

I agree with you that simply not bringing those issues up is another means of navigating those disagreements, but that only works if all parties involved can abide by that agreement. If Uncle Ralph keeps rubbing MAGA won in the faces of the rest of the family, they're not the as*holes for not inviting him, he's the as*hole both for his insufferable bragging and for voting to harm the people he claims as loved ones.

People want to be antagonistic, but not face consequences for their antagonism. That's not how things work, actions have consequences and if one goes out of your way to harm their so-called loved ones they should anticipate finding out those loved ones aren't so fond of them.

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28 Nov 2024, 1:42 pm

I expect to see four years of attention grabbing divisive politics.
Why not plan ahead for the future?

Dox47
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28 Nov 2024, 1:53 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

You seem uncomfortable having your views scrutinized by the people you know in person, by your own admission.

Your projection is not my belief, what I said is that I don't feel like arguing with people, not that I'm uncomfortable.

funeralxempire wrote:

Would you associate with someone who repeatedly brings up the idea that adults should be allowed to f**k children, or would that be a deal-breaker for remaining close friends with someone?

Red herring, and not for nothing, but those people seem to congregate on the left side of the aisle, don't hear many right wing types using language like "minor attracted person" and such.

funeralxempire wrote:

I agree with you that simply not bringing those issues up is another means of navigating those disagreements, but that only works if all parties involved can abide by that agreement. If Uncle Ralph keeps rubbing MAGA won in the faces of the rest of the family, they're not the as*holes for not inviting him, he's the as*hole both for his insufferable bragging and for voting to harm the people he claims as loved ones.

Now you're moving the goalposts, we weren't talking about dis-inviting the political blowhards (which I have no problem with, just like I wouldn't invite a chronic drunk or a general jerk), just people with different politics.

funeralxempire wrote:

People want to be antagonistic, but not face consequences for their antagonism. That's not how things work, actions have consequences and if one goes out of your way to harm their so-called loved ones they should anticipate finding out those loved ones aren't so fond of them.

Simply voting for their own interests, even if they conflict with the interests of others, is not antagonistic, as much as you keep trying to make it so.

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funeralxempire
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28 Nov 2024, 2:04 pm

Dox47 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Would you associate with someone who repeatedly brings up the idea that adults should be allowed to f**k children, or would that be a deal-breaker for remaining close friends with someone?

Red herring, and not for nothing, but those people seem to congregate on the left side of the aisle, don't hear many right wing types using language like "minor attracted person" and such.

Funny, it's conservatives who say s**t like the problem isn't teenage pregnancy, it's unwed pregnancy.

But more importantly, it's a dishonest dodge. Would you consider that a dealbreaker or not?

Dox47 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

It's almost like I struggle to believe the premise that all of these MAGA types are completely innocent victims of the big bad leftists and instead like those families might have good reasons to exclude their most toxic members.

Dox47 wrote:

funeralxempire wrote:

Simply voting for their own interests, even if they conflict with the interests of others, is not antagonistic, as much as you keep trying to make it so.

Everyone is free to vote however they'd like.
Everyone is free to associate or not associate on whatever grounds they see as reasonable.

It sounds like a lot of butthurt whining from the f**k your feelings crowd. Well, f**k their feelings. :lol:

Dox47
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28 Nov 2024, 3:32 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

But more importantly, it's a dishonest dodge. Would you consider that a dealbreaker or not?

Depends on the context, a lot of my friends are philosophy majors who like to come up with weird hypotheticals to probe the boundaries of logic vs emotion, some of which can get pretty out there. Not really sure what you're trying to get at, you're actually a good example of the kind of person I would actually shun, since I do draw the line at rape apologists and toxic people who latch onto causes that give them permission structures to bully others.

funeralxempire wrote:

You do realize that everyone can see when you throw out a non-sequitur response to something I never said, right?

funeralxempire wrote:

Everyone is free to vote however they'd like.
Everyone is free to associate or not associate on whatever grounds they see as reasonable.

I never said otherwise, I said it's stupid and cultish to do it to friends and family over politics.

funeralxempire wrote:

It sounds like a lot of butthurt whining from the f**k your feelings crowd. Well, f**k their feelings. :lol:

And you sound like a bully who thinks that they're the good guy because they've found an "acceptable" target for their behavior. Lot of that going around on the left, sadists who've figured out that they can indulge their anti social behaviors without censure if they cloak them in enough social justice buzzwords and such.

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funeralxempire
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28 Nov 2024, 3:51 pm

Dox47 wrote:

This sounds like a poor rationalization of the conservative martyr complex. You guys always find a way to portray yourselves as martyrs, at least to your fellow conservatives. Unfortunately beyond that bubble it's just a lot of performative whining. Trump voters have chosen to self-identify as as*holes but don't like being treated like as*holes.

This is literally nothing more than whining about natural consequences. They don't deserve my sympathy, but everyone is free to choose what they consider sympathetic. You're entitled to believe they're worthy of your sympathy, you're entitled to think I'm a dick for disagreeing, you're even entitled to shun me over it.

I'm not going to act like I'm somehow the victim because Dox47 doesn't like me and chooses to no longer interact with me. I can accept that lots of valid reasons can exist for not liking someone or not maintaining a relationship with someone.

Voting for people who will directly harm one's self or their loved ones is a perfectly valid reason to not maintain a relationship with someone and no amount of butthurt will change that.

Dox47
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29 Nov 2024, 1:25 am

funeralxempire wrote:

Even for you, that's a lot of projection. And again, what is this "martyrdom" that I'm claiming? Being denied your presence?

funeralxempire wrote:

This is literally nothing more than whining about natural consequences. They don't deserve my sympathy, but everyone is free to choose what they consider sympathetic. You're entitled to believe they're worthy of your sympathy, you're entitled to think I'm a dick for disagreeing, you're even entitled to shun me over it.

I honestly think you're confused in both of these threads, you really seem to think I'm irate or feeling victimized, when I'm just saying that what you're doing is dumb.

funeralxempire wrote:

I'm not going to act like I'm somehow the victim because Dox47 doesn't like me and chooses to no longer interact with me. I can accept that lots of valid reasons can exist for not liking someone or not maintaining a relationship with someone.

Huh?

funeralxempire wrote:

Voting for people who will directly harm one's self or their loved ones is a perfectly valid reason to not maintain a relationship with someone and no amount of butthurt will change that.

There you go again trying to provoke me with belittling language, such amateur hour stuff. Go ahead, further isolate yourself to people who share your loser views that keep getting stomped into the ground. In fact if I were to intentionally give you bad advice it would be to stay the course and do exactly what you've been doing.

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Carbonhalo
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29 Nov 2024, 2:06 am

After years of watching your right wing demonizing your left wing it hardly seems surprising that families are divided.

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