Historical context of Israel's war on Gaza

Post Reply New Topic

Using a UN force has been tried and failed a number of times.

The problem with forcibly trying to disarm Israel is that they have an estimated to have 80 to 400 nukes. They are a high tech superpower with a lot of assets in US. I would assume they have the capability through cyberattacks to set the United States back hundreds of years.

Here, in the thread Evidence of Israel's genocidal intentions toward Gaza?:

Moving this discussion here for topicality reasons. I will post a reply later.

Not that the assets from Israel would let the US, but am pretty sure the USA can make a good accounting of itself in a
War.

So I am accused of bias. Then when I respond to those accusations, you "move" the thread here while cutting out your allegations of bias.

If your allegations of my bias are on topic on the other thread, then my defense is certainly on topic as well.

How do you sleep at night defending violent terrorists who rate, torture, and murder women and little girls?

I didn't think my "allegations of bias" were worth repeating. The details of your thoughts and feelings about Israel were the more interesting part of your post.


And indeed your defense is still there, in the other thread. I didn't (and won't) ask for it to be removed.

I just felt that further discussion about it would be a derailment there -- and that it was not the most interesting aspect of your post to discuss here, either. Other aspects of what you wrote were more interesting to me and seemed more likely to lead to worthwhile discussion.

But, since you still want to discuss the question of your bias, here goes:


I don't "defend" the war crimes of either side. I consider war crimes to be horrible regardless of who commits them. Where, in any of my posts, can you find any defense of anyone's war crimes?

I do tend to focus much more on Israel's war crimes than on Hamas's. That's because Israel is, by far, the more powerful of the two entities, and is thus in a much better position to shape the overall situation. But this doesn't mean I approve of Hamas's war crimes, which are certainly horrible too.

Your persistent interpretation of my posts as defending Hamas's war crimes leads me to feel that you do have a bias. Perhaps it's not a pro-Israel bias, but rather just an anti-Palestinian bias?

Anyhow, this leads to a question I think is worth discussing -- and which I hope the remainder of our discussion here can focus on: What is your understanding of the basic grievances of the Palestinians?

Quote from above,per Kokopelli :
So I am accused of bias. Then when I respond to those accusations, you "move" the thread here while cutting out your allegations of bias.

If your allegations of my bias are on topic on the other thread, then my defense is certainly on topic as well.

How do you sleep at night defending violent terrorists who rate, torture, and murder women and little girls?
***********. **************. *************. ************************
Uhm.. either this is poorly worded, or I am not reading it right ? The line immediately above this one.....!
Would actually apply to someone verbally attacking Israel aswell . In this situation .

Something needs to be kept in mind, I feel , in the use of the word terrorist ..IT IS A PROPAGANDA TERM .

depending on whose media you listen to in this issue, this term terrorist as applied ,belongs to all parties .
Exception the situation in that part of the middleEastern "Arab" countries.? We have a crazyman wanting to make a point
about getting control of territories thst are not his or his countries . And he is using methods almost identical to the
Country of Germany in WW2, Of which were used against their Religious countrymen,"etc." .Also which the Country whose basis for existence in because of the terrible things that were done back in WW2.
These two contrary positions for this Israelis countrys behaviour . Is inhumane , after the Israeli position and the own
moussaud tracked down and killed these Germans from the WW2 experience. And many were hung,based on association, and " just doing their jobs "excuse" So Israel obviously , based on their activities are very deserving of the same degree if international judgement and condemnation , and subsequent criminal trials.As was done the previous time to Germanys Military . There is NO doubt that Israel should be subject to its own Nurembourg trials . For as this
Criminal version of nation building. And teaching your Israeli society that this behaviour is sanctioned by anyone.
Is Obscene for all of mankind . IMHO

You keep on conflating Hamas and the Palestinian people as if they were the same thing. Hamas committed an attack, but it's the Palestinian people who are suffering the horrific consequences. They did not attack, Hamas did. And Israel is responsible for the conflict in the first place, going back decades.

Here, in the thread Syrian Revolution:

Busy now, but hopefully will have time to dig up some examples for you later in the week.

Now for the first part of the promised list of references on Zionist/Israeli terrorism:

1) Zionist terrorism before the founding of Israel in 1948:

- Jewish Terrorism and the Modern Middle East by David A. Charters
- Zionist political violence (Wikipedia)
- A lookback at the Zionist terrorism that led to Israel’s creation, TRT World, Murat Sofuoglu, 2023.
- Irgun (Wikipedia)
- Stern Gang (Encyclopedia Britannica)

2) The Nakba:

- Nakba (Wikipedia)
- 1948 Palestine war (Wikipedia)
- Deir Yassin massacre (Wikipedia)
- 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight (Wikipedia)
- Causes of the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight (Wikipedia)
- Nakba denial (Wikipedia)
- The Nakba: Five Palestinian towns massacred 75 years ago: "Thousands of Palestinians were killed and tens of thousands expelled during and after the creation of the Israeli state in 1948," by Dalia Hatuqa, Al Jazeera,15 May 2023.

I'll post links to pages about more recent stuff later, including:

3) Terrorism by Israeli Jewish settlers in the occupied West Bank and other occupied territories

That seems dangerously close to suggesting that she deserved it because of how she dressed.

The Israelis have had an illegal blockade of Gaza going for quite some time and basically nothing has been going in that would permit an improvement in conditions or for the people to find other things to do than attack Israel.

Both governments are comprised of baddies, but only one of them has a viable option to stop escalating things.

Now for the next part of my promised list of references on Zionist/Israeli terrorism:

3) Terrorism by Israeli Jewish settlers in the occupied West Bank and other occupied territories

- Israeli settler violence (Wikipedia)
- Settler Violence = State Violence, B'Tselem (The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories)
- Settler Violence: The nature of the violence, B'Tselem
- Price tag attack policy (Wikipedia)
- Concerns over rising settler violence in the West Bank, BBC, 17 November 2011
- Huwara rampage (Wikipedia) -- occurred on 26 February 2023
- Mapping 1,400 Israeli settler attacks in the West Bank over the past year, AlJazeera, 10 Oct 2024: "There was an average of four incidents of settler violence per day in the occupied West Bank since October 7."
- How Extremist Settlers Took Over Israel, New York Times, May 16, 2024

Recent examples:

- Deadly civilian rampage in West Bank sparks rare condemnation from Israeli leaders, Associated Press, via PBS, Aug 16, 2024
- Jewish settlers rampage in West Bank, killing 1, Palestinian officials say, Associated Press, via PBS, Aug 27, 2024
- Stemming Israeli Settler Violence at Its Root, International Crisis Group, September 6, 2024
- Violence by extremist Israeli settlers increases in the occupied West Bank, NPR, Nov 13, 2024

And a rare token response from the U.S. government:

- U.S. sanctions extremist West Bank settlers for violence against Palestinians, Associated Press, via PBS, Oct 1, 2024. See also Treasury Designates Extremist Settler Group in West Bank, U.S. Treasury Dept. website, October 1, 2024 (about Hilltop Youth)

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 12 Dec 2024, 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

That's nonsense. There is NOTHING in that that is anywhere close to suggesting that she deserved it because of how she dressed. Not a thing.

Last edited by kokopelli on 12 Dec 2024, 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

While there are many things described in the links that are hardly terrorism (being mean to someone is not terrorism even if it is reprehensible), but there are some things there that certainly do appear to be terroristic in nature.

Thanks for the info.

Context matters, what you're saying is more or less equivalent to the victim had it coming. October 7th was wrong. but it pales in comparison to what Israel was doing before and after and it didn't exactly come out of nowhere.

Both sides can be wrong, but only one side is aggressively going after countries that haven't attacked it and refusing to do anything to move towards peace.

Only one? Sure.

Comparing it to the "because she had it coming", the woman was apparently wearing clothes that ended up drawing out the attacker's worst desires and impulses. The woman took no actual steps to bring about the violence inflicted upon her.

That is much different than Hamas's vicious, terrorist attack. They were the instigators of the violence against civilians. They are more akin to the rapists in your analogy than to "she" who had it coming. Your comparison seems to be placing the fault for the attack on the women and children, not the attackers.