Should we pull support from Israel?

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actually you're wrong about the purchasing of certain areas. they were taken by force in WWII as was much of the middle east and norther parts of africa.

the purchase was done from most likely england....which was ill-gotten imperialism.


as far as reparations...i fully meant that in the evacuation, those people would be given homes and green cards or maybe citizenship along with the education to assist in their integration into their new environment.

it'd cost a little bit of money but not nearly as much as constant war and constantly dumping money into a fake country does.

Actually it goes back before WWII. Part of the purchase was from the mayor of Gaza himself. I don't have the time to look up the exact details today because I want to make progress on some homework. I will post it by the day after tomorrow though.

cool, i'm interested in seeing the information source for that...because i could have sworn most of israel was ill-gotten as a part of the spoils of war.

Fairest thing if for the US to make a new Israel within its borders and they can all go live over with you guys, maybe near New York or something. And then the Middle East can go back to making Humus and Falafels, or whatever it is they do over there.

Hahahaha. We need the oil though, and nuking the place would be horrible. It would also start WWIII and end in everyone's death.

Sounds good.

But, can't it be done with less damage to the
ecosystem?

It's quite possible the mayor of Gaza may not have had the authority to sell the land to the Israelis anyway. The country of Israel, or 'state' if you prefer has never formally been recognised before 1948, and the first actual president was Albert Einstein, although the title may have been honorary. The US continually pouring money and aid into that place has caused nothing but trouble for the rest of the area, and I don't care about whether there was a biblical promise or not, ancient promises and law counts for nothing in modern day society. We have a group of people over there who are hell-bent on causing as much trouble over there as they can, and whenever things go pear-shaped they then cry foul and run to the US for help, saying that the 'big bad ..insert flavour of the month enemy here.. are picking on us and want to take our oil/nukes/land away. Help us, we need money/military weapons/aid so we can stop these nasty people.' Well, f*ck them with something hard and sand-papery, because those people are the Israelis, and for such a small piss-poor nation they have an extremely big collective mouth. If they can't learn to get on with their neighbours like everyone else has to, then let 'em blow 'emselves to kingdom come. That way they can find out if their maker actually exists. Oh, and if the Yanks are scared of the Arabs taking over, well, if they wanted world domination you guys would have been wiped out years ago. 300 million muslims would have had a field day. But obviously they don't want the world, seeing as they only use sneak attacks. They just want somewhere to call home, like everyone else. Pity the Israelis can't see the wood for the trees, or the sand for the dunes.

Goat on Fire, where did you get this info about Palestine legally selling land to Israel?
My understanding is that Britain through the work of Lawrence of Arabia promised the Palestinians the land if they helped us kick out the Turkish, but then when we where losing World War 1 to the Germans, Balfour made an arrangement with the Zionists who still contorl and use America, that if they could convince America to join the war, we would let them have the use of the land that we had allraedy promised to the Palestinians.

The Zionists completed thier aquisition of Jerusalem through thier financing of Adolf Hitler, the emotional impact of the so called Holocaust resulting in the Zionists gaining full control.

And now the Israelies are stealing further Palestine land, murdering thier children and all the while the Zionist controlled and owned Western media makes out its the poor Jews who are suffering and need our help and protection by sacrificing young American lives to fight thier wars for them.

Meh, just sweep through killing everything that moves. We only start WW3 if we piss off other major powers though.

America is the root why the terrorists, and many others, hate America. Don't try to pretend that you didn't want any war. You didn't have to fight at all, it could have been avoided.

Don't blame them for your bloodlust. Take resposibility and clean up the mess you have caused.

It was not just the Mayor of Gaza who sold land to the Zionist movement who were buying it from the National Jewish fund. It also included the mayors of Jerusalem and Jaffa, even King Abdullah, many leaders of the Arab national movement including members of the Muslim supreme council who were outspoken opponents of the Zionist movement took Jewish money for lands even before World War I, as early as 1880. And yes, some of them did have the authority to do so. They knew what the Zionist movement was doing when they sold it, but they wanted the money, they brought it on themselves.

If all the Muslims want is just peace and a place to call home, they have thousands of square miles of land all over the region they could give to the Palestinians. The Palestinians were slaughtered by thousands when they tried to occupy Jordan and Lebanon. Some people want peace so badly that they are supporting the terrorist groups whose acts of terrorism are the reason there even is a need for peace over there.

To be fair the Jews brought quite a bit of it on themselves, too. Back in the 1880's the Jews were actually encouraged to move to the Palestinian region because the region was in dire economic straits and bringing the Jews in would help stop that. The problem was that when the Jews moved in they would not hire anybody except another Jew. They were buying up the land from people desperate for money and wouldn't give them a job to help them get resituated. In fact, in the 30's, the British even instated efforts to try to keep the Jews from buying land in the region and immigrating to the region, such as the White Paper, in order to protect the Arabs from the Jews' business practices. Contrary to skafather84's assumption that the purchase was most likely done from England. That said, Israel needs to make some serious concessions to be taken seriously if they say they want peace.

Israel needs to tear down its walls, but expecting them to do that is ridiculous until organizations such as Hamas are disbanded and stops the terrorist attacks on Israel. If we stopped supporting Israel at this point it could start a nuclear war, they won't give up their nukes, and if we stop supporting them, they might use them, and then awesomelyglorious can get his final solution. To be honest, the leaders of Israel, the Palestine, and the surrounding countries and their terrorist organization are all a bunch of stubborn pricks, otherwise this all could have been fixed by now.

skafather84. I don't trust internet sources but there is a pretty good book on the subject called "The Land Question in Palestine, 1917-1939" by Kenneth W. Stein. It doesn't cover everything, but it is sufficient enough to show that there was purchasing of area prior to WWII, and England was surprisingly supportive of the Palestinians. I tried to get some demographic studies from my college library's journal archive but finding a good one is difficult.

The Zionist movement bought land in the region using the Jewish National Fund, there was little doubt the sellers knew what the ulterior motives of the Zionist movement was, they needed the money. Some of it was prior to Lawrence of Arabia. The book I mentioned doesn't go back that far. I don't know of a book that does, although I'm sure there is one, if anyone knows what it is, post it, as I said, I don't trust internet sources.

We should be an honest broker of peace. There may be times when we want to support Israel, times when we want to support other countries, sometime both. Depends on what deals we can cut, how we evaluate the actions and motives of the players.

We should not support any country 100% regardless of what they do. If we are putting our money up, we can insist that the parties compromise and play nice, or we balk and they are more on their own. That is my major beef with current policies - it is not about being an honest broker, it is about favoring one country and letting them do whatever their right-wing government wants.

mmmh ok. Because Europe was REALLY safe for the jews before they got Israel, wasnt it....

If we're going to talk about made-up countries that dont deserve to exist.. lets look at another country. People persecuted for their religion move to a new land. They take lad from its indigenous population, colonise the area.. the indiginies betrayed, slaughtered in government sponsored pogroms, its people herded into smaller and smaller areas.. they start wars with other colonies and groups moving into the same areas. Then the colonists overthrow their perfectly legally implemented colonial government, killing a lot of people into the bargain, make up a set of rules about how their country should be governed, dont think them through properly and end up having a nasty civil war and proceed to slaughter even more indigenous people... then eventually build up a vast stockpile of nuclear weapons.

Sound familiar?

Theres an old saying about stones, throwing, and glass houses that springs to mind.

so what you're saying is that you have no sources that prove it. you just think that there'd be sources that prove it.

strawman.