I think Aspergeans should NOT have children

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Rynessa
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06 Oct 2007, 9:21 am

uh oh, I've denegrated the gene pool...
Better round us all up and send us to concentration camps, eh? :roll:



KingdomOfRats
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06 Oct 2007, 9:40 am

Quote:
I think abou this all of the time...
I want to have children sometime in the future...but am worried that they will have AS. I wouldn't want my future child to feel the way I did through school, not understanding yourself (and that has gone on my whole life!).
If they have children...their children may have AS...and there for just making more POTENTIALLY un-happy children..............................

AS adults also have kanners/classic autism children,so it cant be predicted that the child of aspie parent would definitely be aspie,NT with spectrum traits or NT.
if want to predict it'll be an aspie,why not adopt a child instead.

there are people who knowingly have genes which can make their children have conditions that kill them or severly disable them in the end,but still decide to risk it,if they can do it knowing how severely it can affect their child then why not people on the spectrum with having children,as it's not even as 'serious' [at least auties and aspies don't die from the conditions].

am will never have children,so this will not affect am,but am think there is no right or wrong because both having,and not having have good and bad bits.


MW99,if think like that,that is choice.
every little box of text comes under one user name on here,it does not come under every name so is not trying to speak for all names,it's not a fact and does not try to be,MW99 also did not want to offend people.
WP is a forum for auties and aspies [and other NDs to],so being very honest is natural on here.
if people have to hide that to suit the opinions of others it's taking away that autie/aspie spirit and is only being fair to some and not all.



Last edited by KingdomOfRats on 06 Oct 2007, 9:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

sinsboldly
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06 Oct 2007, 9:41 am

Mw99 wrote:
I know my statement about aspies not having children could be construed as being provocative, especially since some of you claim to have kids, but I honestly believe people like us shouldn't reproduce.

In my case, whenever I think about having kids, I ask myself some of the following questions (and these are just hypothetical questions, as I'd first need to find a woman to reproduce with, which so far seems like an extremely difficult task to accomplish):

1) Why would you want to bring kids to this world to suffer the way you suffered?
2) Why would you want to degenerate the human gene pool even further?
3) Given my neuropsychological condition, am I really fit to raise a child?
4) Given all my flaws and defects, what example will I give my children?

So what do you all think about the way I think in regards to "aspergean reproduction"? Are my views too negative?

(I hope I did not offend anyone with my comments.)


Ok, that last line says you are being the Devil's Advocate, here, and might not actually HAVE the opinion expressed above. However I have written my response to your arguement, and ask you to leave a personal attack on you out of the response :wink:

I think YOU should do what your intelligence dictates and not have children. Obviously the position on AS you have taken indicates a deep seated hostility towards your self that you are not like the NTs in your life. It seems you don't give yourself much of a break - thinking that others have fewer challenges to their lives than you do. That is pretty arrogant, don't you think?

I have found attitude is everything. If your challenges have taken over your sense of humor about your condition, I find that the tragedy. A member of our AS group felt the way you do and drank transmission fluid over such an attitude like yours. His wife found him staggering around and got him to the hospital in time to save his wretched life and now he shows us his various tubes into his stomach by which he takes his liquid meals. No matter how down someone is on themselves, there is always room to get worse.

I am sorry you feel so hostile towards your self. It must be like being what ever skin pigmentation and hating yourself for it, or being a different non accepted sexual orientation and persecuting yourself for being born like that. Do you really think NTs will admire you for your stance on reproduction? Will you weasel your way into their good graces by being so obsequious to the dominant neurological class? Or will they just laugh at you because you fit their stereotype?



9CatMom
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06 Oct 2007, 10:04 am

I think about this a lot. I have a medical condition that is not handicapping to me, but could potentially manifest itself worse in a child I have. I also worry about complications due to my age and the medication I take. However, I won't discount marriage and children. Meanwhile, I will concentrate my maternal energies on my cats.



mechanima
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06 Oct 2007, 10:11 am

9CatMom wrote:
I think about this a lot. I have a medical condition that is not handicapping to me, but could potentially manifest itself worse in a child I have. I also worry about complications due to my age and the medication I take. However, I won't discount marriage and children. Meanwhile, I will concentrate my maternal energies on my cats.


Personally, I would put a whole lot more worry into age and medication factors than into AS. But even so, if it ever feels right, and you do your homework, go for it...but not, perhaps, unless the cats give permission? :)

M



copernilol
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06 Oct 2007, 10:12 am

Dont worry, the only thing I'm having sex with is my hand.



9CatMom
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06 Oct 2007, 10:17 am

Mechanima,

Exactly. I think maternal age and medication play much more of a part in my decision. LOL on the cats!

I also have to continue working on myself, concentrating on learning to drive and on getting a full time job. There are quite a few things I need to accomplish first before I can think of getting married and having children.



mechanima
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06 Oct 2007, 10:35 am

9CatMom wrote:
concentrating on learning to drive.


You HAVE to do that...I learned at 22 and was driving regularly at 28, but a friend of mine started driving aged 56.

Driving IS FREEDOM...and your own car is a portable piece of territory that opens so many doors and makes so many things possible...

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Goche21
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06 Oct 2007, 10:39 am

I think it depends on how far down the spectrum you are, but AS really isn't severe. That said, we don't even know what causes it, science claiming anything from genetics, to bug spray, or certain sweeteners affect whether a kid is born autistic. Right now it just 'tends' to run in a family, but with so many diagnosed, how could it not?



wrongthinking
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06 Oct 2007, 10:41 am

1) Why would you want to bring kids to this world to suffer the way you suffered?
2) Why would you want to degenerate the human gene pool even further?
3) Given my neuropsychological condition, am I really fit to raise a child?
4) Given all my flaws and defects, what example will I give my children?


1) The world is the world whether or not you have AS, ADHD... or not.

2) The fact that you are intelligent enough to ask that question gives you a head start on a large part of humanity. Who else qualifies? Anyone with an IQ below average (President Bush has a 90 he reproduced). Asthma, Heart disease, Cancer, look at most health problems humans encounter and you will find most of them have a congenital link.

3)Your "Neuropsychological condition" is less directly dangerous than than the standard mentality of the average NT car salesman.

4)Everyone has flaws!! ! My NT father told me I "thought wrong" and he was going to fix me himself, I didn't have any diagnosis at the time. NT's are responsible for wars, religious fanaticism, terrorism, the decline in American personal freedoms. They hurt people for being different, weaker, or just cause they feel bad about themselves. How many of your flaws are due to AS and how many are just from being HUMAN?! Flawed humans reproduce pretty much exclusively.


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06 Oct 2007, 11:26 am

Rynessa wrote:
uh oh, I've denegrated the gene pool...
Better round us all up and send us to concentration camps, eh? :roll:


Now you've done it 8O I have heard they are setting up a national autism registry the same way they have set up offender registries or no fly registries :roll:



AnnePande
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06 Oct 2007, 11:34 am

As for suffering, that's a part of living in this world, so you can't totally avoid it, no matter how neurotypical you are.
On the other hand, you can't say that people with AS necessarily suffer (because of the condition, that is).

Morerover, as I see it, you're sending the signal that people who suffer in one or another way rather shouldn't have been born... but maybe I misunderstand.

And it's no guarantee at all to be a good parent that you are neurotypical. (It's not even a guarantee for empathy.... :p )



gwenevyn
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06 Oct 2007, 11:40 am

I don't equate autism with suffering, though I do agree that my AS symptoms make my life more difficult and exhausting than it would otherwise be. That said, everybody has challenges, even NTs born into great wealth with perfect parents.

I have a child. At this point he appears to be NT, with a handful of aspie-like traits. I thought I'd be good at it because I was an excellent teacher and had a lot of experience working with children. I do all right, and I'm especially good when it comes to fostering his intellectual growth... but I am honestly not as happy as a mother, as I'd thought I'd be. And there are moments when I just don't know how to cope. If I'd known what it would be like for a person with my brain type and challenges, to be around a child 24 hours a day, I have to admit I would never have done it. This feels incredibly embarrassing to admit and makes me feel like a bad parent, but it's the truth.


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holdsteady
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06 Oct 2007, 11:44 am

O lord, i suffer so much everday, i just dont know what to do sometimes.
It is like a weight crushing me, that never relents howevar hard i try. one day my sufferings will end but i cannot pass on this much pain to others.



KARANRPH
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06 Oct 2007, 11:48 am

offended - for the record



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06 Oct 2007, 11:48 am

OP States
1) Why would you want to bring kids to this world to suffer the way you suffered?
2) Why would you want to degenerate the human gene pool even further?
3) Given my neuropsychological condition, am I really fit to raise a child?
4) Given all my flaws and defects, what example will I give my children?

So what do you all think about the way I think in regards to "aspergean reproduction"? Are my views too negative? [End of Quote]

My reply-- On a serious note: Yes they are too negative. Let's go through one of these at a time---

Suffering--> Everyone goes through their trials and tribulations of life. Aspies probably have more than their share compared to your typcial NTs. The same could be said of someone physcially handicapped. That does not mean they are not able to start a family.

Regarding the human gene pool-> we are not sure if autism is inherited or not. It may be in some cases it may not be in others. Just because someone is on the Autistic Spectrum as an adult does not mean his/her kid will be that way. Sickle cell anemia is also genetically passed on but that doesn't mean we should prohibit them from having children.

Regarding your ability to raise a child-> Aspies are found in all walks of life such as college professors, physicians or skilled craftsmen. They are capable of living successful lives (though admittedly it takes considerably more effort compared to most NTs)

Now if you are talking about someone on the Autistic Spectrum where one is simply not capable of living independently that might be a different matter. However, even that could be modified if that person has a supportive family network. I am more prepared to say it would depend on each individual rather than blanket judgments.

Regarding flaws and defects: What example will you have to give to your child? You are morally obligated to give them an example of a warm, loving parent and let the child succeed within the scope of his/her abilities and interests. You are not morally obligated to be Mr./Mrs. Perfect or Superman/Superwoman