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Kilroy
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09 Dec 2007, 3:36 pm

well when people are starving they'll beleive anything I guess



Tim_Tex
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09 Dec 2007, 4:03 pm

Funny you should mention Singapore. It cracks me up that the biggest fear they have there is that someone might pee in an elevator.

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monty
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09 Dec 2007, 4:11 pm

Reodor_Felgen wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
Singapore has improved a lot for the last 20 years, thanks to international trade and capitalism. The same thing could have happened to Cuba if someone else had overthrown Batista and stopped Fidel and Che in the process.


Maybe. Although pre-fidel Cuba was more than Batista, it was dominated by a small group of wealthy families that formed an oligarchy that posed an obstacle to development along the lines of the Singapore model. There is also a good case that Castro was pushed into the communist orbit by Nixon, who was obsessed with equating all leftists with communism. Che left Cuba shortly after the revolution, and a big factor was his disgust with Castro's policies of limited reform.

Given Cuba's geographic position and the Cold War, it seems to me that they were bound to have a government that was either very pro-US or very anti-US.



techstepgenr8tion
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09 Dec 2007, 4:31 pm

Because there are plenty more suckers out there who think Capitalism and 'the man' is out to get them. That and when you an angsty teenager, being socialist, communist, or anarchist is just the cool thing to do.

I tend to prefer this t-shirt myself though just because its fun to watch people like that squirm, pout, and storm off:

Image



snake321
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09 Dec 2007, 6:03 pm

I was never fully sure about Che, I didn't study too much about him I had heard he was supposed to be kinda like a hispanic malcom x type figure or something.... But I had also heard something similar to this somewhere before. Well I can now see he was a full fledged tyrant.



Kilroy
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09 Dec 2007, 6:40 pm

most kids dont understand communism
I've read countless books about it...
and a few in Russian (took me a LONG time) :lol:



richardbenson
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09 Dec 2007, 6:52 pm

i guess if i was unhappy where i lived i'd move to where i would be happy



Kilroy
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09 Dec 2007, 7:32 pm

yes but these people can barely afford to eat...
and all around them the countries were exactly the same
then this man comes and promises bread, freedom and peace
I'd go with him



BeornJ
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09 Dec 2007, 8:25 pm

Because he had the integrity and passion to be willing to die for a cause he believed in, and also because had the same willingness to kill for his cause.

There is something to admire there, but also something to be feared and hated.



greenblue
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10 Dec 2007, 1:05 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
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communism may not work too well, (socialism does)

The people who make this distinction usually don't really know what they are saying.

or maybe the people who don't make the distinction, don't know what they are saying?

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Almost all things that we have labeled as communist are actually socialist. The USSR, the heart of communism, was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. The USSR was socialist.

That's because USSR communism was a new branch of Socialism, to an extreme, not the equivalent. Many socialists condemn Lenin's communism.

http://www.marxmail.org/faq/socialism_and_communism.htm

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http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_fre-economy-economic-freedom

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This data makes a number of assumptions about 'freedom' and the role of the government that are not accepted by much of the world's population.

Why Japan is kinda low there? as their economy is very capitalist.


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greenblue
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10 Dec 2007, 1:14 am

About Guevara, yes he was a murderer and a tyrant, full of hate, blaming the US for poor countries being poor, therefore a hate against Capitalism, he isn't a hero at all, just a barbaric man, doesn't mean socialist ideology is that bad though, mostly modern ideologies adjusting to the modern world. Not that I am exactly socialist, but not a capitalism advocate either, I believe a world economy based on a combination between Capitalism and Socialism might be better, IMO.


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Mc_Jeff
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10 Dec 2007, 8:05 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Because there are plenty more suckers out there who think Capitalism and 'the man' is out to get them. That and when you an angsty teenager, being socialist, communist, or anarchist is just the cool thing to do.

I tend to prefer this t-shirt myself though just because its fun to watch people like that squirm, pout, and storm off:

Image


I own this shirt.



psych
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10 Dec 2007, 8:25 am

doesnt really work without the beret imo.

after all, its the beret that all the trendy students really dig and the true reason for the shirts popularity. Che is just the model.



pandabear
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10 Dec 2007, 8:54 am

Yeah, he was kind of a cutie, wasn't he?



Awesomelyglorious
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10 Dec 2007, 9:33 am

greenblue wrote:
or maybe the people who don't make the distinction, don't know what they are saying?

Well, I mean in terms of socialism working and communism not because there is no evidence of either working. I know that there are distinct differences in the terms.

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That's because USSR communism was a new branch of Socialism, to an extreme, not the equivalent. Many socialists condemn Lenin's communism.

I know that. Most of the left has left that socialism, however, there is not socialism to replace that.

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This data makes a number of assumptions about 'freedom' and the role of the government that are not accepted by much of the world's population.

It is by the heritage institute. It does not matter how on earth you define freedom for this discussion so much as how they define it. Their definition would be relatively capitalistic.
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Why Japan is kinda low there? as their economy is very capitalist.

Because their economy really isn't. Japan is known for its tariffs, its subsidies, and its corporate bailouts. In fact, the Japanese model is often pointed to by economists who dislike markets as a refutation of neo-liberalism's claims, so yeah, it isn't.



pandabear
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13 Dec 2007, 11:00 am

Here is an article on Mr. Guevara:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che_Guevara

He was a rather interesting character, who liked chess, and who devoted his life to guerrilla warfare.
He also wrote a few books.

Maybe if he had been captured and imprisoned in Guantanamo, rather than executed in the jungle, then he might have eventually been broken, and regarded less as a hero with a cult following.