The 'Miracle' of Consciousness

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The problem with these consciousness threads is that they focus too much on consciousness itself and not enough on what it is that is conscious. Is it just the construction of AngelRho's brain that makes him focus on sound, Sand on life, and Ruevyn on learning?

Techstepgenr8tion wants to know why. I have only read The Tripartite Tractate through once, and found it very difficult to understand, however I find the concept that consciousness came first, then time, then life makes a lot of sense to me; but is that just because of the construction of my brain?

Since my brain finds your brain lacking I would say so.

Consciousness is quite a word.

Assorted comments...

There are concepts like being others conscious (sales people have this) as well as being self-conscious.

Empathy

If there is any one secret of success, it lies in the ability to get the other person's point of view and see things from that person's angle as well as from your own.

- Henry Ford

Consciousness if often the word which follows the two words: I am

Let the weak say, I am strong.

- KJV

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The neurology of consciousness is looked at in the many, many epilepsies (petit mal/absence/complex partial/TLE), ADHD Inattentive, autism, Asperger's, subtle (or greater) brain injuries, concussions and so on.

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Perhaps a group of persons which possess an extreme ability to work with consciousness are movie directors (who have to understand all the characters in a movie and how they fit together).

A movie director has to see the big picture and how the parts fit in the whole.

Of course, when a movie works - it is because of everyone involved, not only the movie director who tends to paint a picture using the actors and actresses as colors but how the individual actors/actresses can give their personalities and abilities to the story.

I think a good movie - whether it is real or animation - is a example of consciousness on a grand scale.

A good movie is quite an achievement.

In the absence of a higher spirituality there would be no point because there would be nothing to have a point or purpose in making us conscious. Several people have stated why it is good to be conscious, in that it permits us to see the beauty of the world that we are a part of; of course it also permits us to see the ugliness so the question of would we be better off without it might be a question of which we see more of.

I would agree that it would have no practical value for the advancement of the species if we did not have a will to go with it. I would not see the point of making a computer conscious and aware of what it was doing if it did not have the ability to do things differently than the way it was programmed if it determined there was a better way to do them.

There are already computers that asses the environment and learn how to deal with it.

Computers do not learn. The execute programs as prescribed by the programmers.

ruveyn

And there are programs that modify themselves in respect to incoming data.

The programs modify themselves through the execution of a modification portion. No learning takes place. Computers are as dumb as a gunny sack full of bricks.

ruveyn

And how do brains work? Why is calling one "learning" and the other not justified?

Brains are alive and complicated. A computer is a very crude thing in comparison. To have consciousness one needs a high degree of parallel processing which is generally missing from computers. Maybe, one day, perhaps someone will invent an inorganic machine with consciousness, but that day has not arrived.

ruveyn

And you are totally aware of all software developments in all the many thousands of laboratories in the whole world ?

Yes. They are crude artificial emulations (and superficial emulations at that) of the Real Thing.

When a computer can show the learning ability of a one year old human I will believe it is intelligent (that is the Turing Test, essentially).

ruveyn

Do you then reserve consciousness for humans or do you have even the glimmer of suspicion that it might exist in a horse, a gorilla, a rabbit, a mouse, a sparrow, a whale, or a praying mantis. Who are you that you can decree where and where not it exists?

Many of the mammalians species have the ability to learn. It is hard to say whether they are capable of abstract thought or not. We know chimpanzees who are 95 percent US can learn and solve problems. Ditto for Bonobos. But these are all organic beings and are not made of dry silicon and germanium. They are wet organic things, just like us.

As to machines being conscious? Or intelligent? Consider this. Humans make computers. When a computer can make (create, synthesize, put together, construct) a human without being specifically programmed to do so, then I will believe it might be conscious or intelligent.

ruveyn

Humans can make humans but only through the non-conscious actions of their component cells. There is certainly nothing conscious about the intricate process nor does it have anything whatsoever to do with their learning processes. The process is organic but totally mechanical.

So, you are saying that only women are conscious or intelligent? I didn't know you had that kind of a feminist streak.