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Do think the patriot act is constitutional?
Yes 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
No 91%  91%  [ 29 ]
Total votes : 32

psych
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02 Jan 2008, 12:15 pm

Orwell wrote:
iolent revolt is obviously impractical and of dubious moral virtue. You could try fleeing to Canada, but when/if North American integration (our Anschluss) comes, that won't be much help. So what can be done?


I think the answer is quite simple - you simply need to revoke your US citizenship. Remember, the US Govt is only a corporation, and its laws are only company laws.
By revoking your citizenship you cease to be an asset-employee of the US govt. corporation and become'sui juris' - a freeman. The federal laws simply wont apply to you any longer.

http://inpursuitofhappiness.wordpress.c ... sui-juris/
http://www.barefootsworld.net/sui_juris ... ction.html

Getting in to the legal technicalities above, can make it seem very complicated. But at the most basic level its commonsense - Those in authority DO NOT control the USA, even with all the police, armies etc - there simply dont wield that sort of power. In order for the few to control the many, they simply rely on the populace to police themselves, by blindly following the status quo. Violence and running away add to the problem, all it takes is for you to collectively say 'NO' and refuse to continue playing along with the game. And fortunately - there is a 'legal' way to do so, without even having to break any of 'their' rules.



Last edited by psych on 02 Jan 2008, 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

richardbenson
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02 Jan 2008, 12:18 pm

why would a president need lawyers? everything george bush does is unconstitutional



Orwell
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02 Jan 2008, 1:28 pm

psych wrote:
Orwell wrote:
iolent revolt is obviously impractical and of dubious moral virtue. You could try fleeing to Canada, but when/if North American integration (our Anschluss) comes, that won't be much help. So what can be done?


I think the answer is quite simple - you simply need to revoke your US citizenship. Remember, the US Govt is only a corporation, and its laws are only company laws.
By revoking your citizenship you cease to be an asset-employee of the US govt. corporation and become'sui juris' - a freeman. The federal laws simply wont apply to you any longer.

http://inpursuitofhappiness.wordpress.c ... sui-juris/
http://www.barefootsworld.net/sui_juris ... ction.html

Getting in to the legal technicalities above, can make it seem very complicated. But at the most basic level its commonsense - Those in authority DO NOT control the USA, even with all the police, armies etc - there simply dont wield that sort of power. In order for the few to control the many, they simply rely on the populace to police themselves, by blindly following the status quo. Violence and running away add to the problem, all it takes is for you to collectively say 'NO' and refuse to continue playing along with the game. And fortunately - there is a 'legal' way to do so, without even having to break any of 'their' rules.

Yes, in theory that works, but they have ways of harassing you if you try to demand any of your rights as a free and sovereign individual. So many kangaroo courts to deal with, that by fighting to preserve your freedom you end up less free, you are now a slave to the unending and unwinable battle. The ideal obviously is what you suggested in the latter part of your post- for the people collectively to simply reject their authority as illegitimate. The problem is in getting enough people simultaneously to do that. When it's just a handful, just some curiosity like Ed and Elaine Brown or similar, such resistance will be unnoticed and ignored. Passive resistance along the lines of Thoreau and Gandhi may be the right thing to do, but in this age of mass apathy it would be ineffective.


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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


zendell
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02 Jan 2008, 2:56 pm

I read through the lengthy page at http://www.barefootsworld.net/sui_juris ... ction.html and it's really complicated. My worry is that anyone who tries to do what he did will be considered a threat to national security and risks being picked up by Homeland Security who will use the Patriot Act against us. I don't think there's anyway to be free in the US now that they can detain people indefinitely without a trial for almost any reason.



snake321
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02 Jan 2008, 3:37 pm

psych wrote:
Orwell wrote:
iolent revolt is obviously impractical and of dubious moral virtue. You could try fleeing to Canada, but when/if North American integration (our Anschluss) comes, that won't be much help. So what can be done?


I think the answer is quite simple - you simply need to revoke your US citizenship. Remember, the US Govt is only a corporation, and its laws are only company laws.
By revoking your citizenship you cease to be an asset-employee of the US govt. corporation and become'sui juris' - a freeman. The federal laws simply wont apply to you any longer.

http://inpursuitofhappiness.wordpress.c ... sui-juris/
http://www.barefootsworld.net/sui_juris ... ction.html

Getting in to the legal technicalities above, can make it seem very complicated. But at the most basic level its commonsense - Those in authority DO NOT control the USA, even with all the police, armies etc - there simply dont wield that sort of power. In order for the few to control the many, they simply rely on the populace to police themselves, by blindly following the status quo. Violence and running away add to the problem, all it takes is for you to collectively say 'NO' and refuse to continue playing along with the game. And fortunately - there is a 'legal' way to do so, without even having to break any of 'their' rules.


Don't be fooled, you won't escape by leaving the US. The same bankers and business leaders behind us are behind the other major super powers too, under thw banner of the UN. Its a New **WORLD** order. So really, you can't out-run it.



zendell
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02 Jan 2008, 7:11 pm

I think they're going to go with a world currency and make everything electronic so they can control the entire world's money supply. They would probably replace income taxes with a value added tax (similar to a sales tax except it's secretly included in the price) so it would be impossible to avoid paying taxes.



psych
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02 Jan 2008, 7:34 pm

snake321 wrote:
psych wrote:
Orwell wrote:
iolent revolt is obviously impractical and of dubious moral virtue. You could try fleeing to Canada, but when/if North American integration (our Anschluss) comes, that won't be much help. So what can be done?


I think the answer is quite simple - you simply need to revoke your US citizenship. Remember, the US Govt is only a corporation, and its laws are only company laws.
By revoking your citizenship you cease to be an asset-employee of the US govt. corporation and become'sui juris' - a freeman. The federal laws simply wont apply to you any longer.

http://inpursuitofhappiness.wordpress.c ... sui-juris/
http://www.barefootsworld.net/sui_juris ... ction.html

Getting in to the legal technicalities above, can make it seem very complicated. But at the most basic level its commonsense - Those in authority DO NOT control the USA, even with all the police, armies etc - there simply dont wield that sort of power. In order for the few to control the many, they simply rely on the populace to police themselves, by blindly following the status quo. Violence and running away add to the problem, all it takes is for you to collectively say 'NO' and refuse to continue playing along with the game. And fortunately - there is a 'legal' way to do so, without even having to break any of 'their' rules.


Don't be fooled, you won't escape by leaving the US. The same bankers and business leaders behind us are behind the other major super powers too, under thw banner of the UN. Its a New **WORLD** order. So really, you can't out-run it.


...which is why ive suggested people assert their sovereignty - this does not imply 'running' as you can remain within the USA boundary, setting a pro-active example to your peers.

I think similar 'loopholes' are likely to exist in other 'democracies' such as the UK.