Islamofascism

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10 Jan 2008, 6:20 pm

The problem is extremists, not the whole religion. Many people in countries like Iran and Turkey are quite moderate.

By the way, the Muslim world was kicking ass in the Middle Ages while they were still burning people at the stake in Europe.

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10 Jan 2008, 6:21 pm

I was going to say something similar to Orwell (but in a nicer way). Which war? I think much wealth has been wasted (stolen) in Iraq, and when that ends, we can concentrate more on domestic issues. Afghanistan was pretty much justified, if mishandled, and we have an obligation to prevent the Taliban from gaining that state again.

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10 Jan 2008, 6:22 pm

And the Arabs and Christians were both just as violent and brutal. That was the state of things in the middle ages.

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10 Jan 2008, 6:23 pm

Anubis wrote:

But still, I don't think it was justified to ban this guy. He was criticising what is mostly a choice. You choose religious beliefs.

You don't choose to be an Arab. It's an ethnic group.

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10 Jan 2008, 6:29 pm

Chuchulainn wrote:

Please don't tell me to read about history. I've read volumes upon volumes (and I mean a whole library) about ancient and medieval history. The Arabs never defeated Christendom.

I never claimed the Arabs "defeated" Christendom, though they did manage to take down the Byzantine Empire, conquer Hungary, and advanced nearly to Vienna before being driven back. I said they were wealthier, which is true. The Mughals in India and the Ottomans in Turkey were just two examples of Muslim civilizations that were wealthier than their European contemporaries. They were pretty rich (think Taj Mahal). Their science, mathematics, art, and literature was superior to that of Europe at the time. Since then Europe has grown to dominate the world, and now Muslims are largely poor, but that was not always the case.

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10 Jan 2008, 6:45 pm

alex wrote:

Anubis wrote:

But still, I don't think it was justified to ban this guy. He was criticising what is mostly a choice. You choose religious beliefs.

You don't choose to be an Arab. It's an ethnic group.

He was mainly criticising the Islamic religion, and mentioned Arabs, being the largest and most prominent group of followers of Islam. It's almost natural to associate the two, whilst not being intentionally racist.

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10 Jan 2008, 6:48 pm

Anubis wrote:

alex wrote:

Anubis wrote:

But still, I don't think it was justified to ban this guy. He was criticising what is mostly a choice. You choose religious beliefs.

You don't choose to be an Arab. It's an ethnic group.

But he did not even listen or consider other people's opinions, instead rejecting them out of hand.

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10 Jan 2008, 6:55 pm

Orwell wrote:

Chuchulainn wrote:

I have a belief that once Islam, or at least extremist Islam, ceases to exist, the government can go back to focusing on enrich our lives and the arts like the '90s, and the United States will no longer be hated by the snobbish Europeans and the barbaric Arabs.

Holy crap. You are a complete and total idiot. What does extremist Islam have to do with the current war in Iraq? Before you answer, remember that Iraq was under a secular government before we invaded, and is now an Islamic theocracy. And how does Islam cause Europeans and Arabs to hate us? I'm pretty sure Arabs hate us because we interfere in their internal affairs (ie overthrowing democratically elected leaders) and try to bully them around in pursuit of our oil interests...

I think Bush said a few times that Saddam had links to Al-Qaeda so people think there were Al-Qaeda training camps throughout Iraq preparing to attack us. Many ignorant people still believe that Iraq attacked us on 9/11 and that the war against Iraq was to prevent them from ever attacking us again with the WMDs they were alleged to have.

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10 Jan 2008, 7:22 pm

Orwell wrote:

Those that did menage to take down Byzantium,conquer Hungary and advanced near Vienna were Ottoman Turks,not Arabs.Turks also conquered Arab territories as well in the east.

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10 Jan 2008, 8:13 pm

The term 'Islamofascism' was coined by someone who did not understand what fascism is. The extremists that people in the US are worried about may be brutal and anti-democratic, but they are not fascist.

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10 Jan 2008, 11:05 pm

Witt wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Those that did menage to take down Byzantium,conquer Hungary and advanced near Vienna were Ottoman Turks,not Arabs.Turks also conquered Arab territories as well in the east.

Sorry, you're right. I miswrote here, we were initially discussing Muslims and somehow there came about a substitution of a racial designation for the religious one. An easy mistake to make sometimes, but just as inexcusable as others and one which needs to be guarded against better. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

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10 Jan 2008, 11:14 pm

monty wrote:

No, they're Theocratic.

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10 Jan 2008, 11:54 pm

TheMandalore wrote:

Second off, if the threat of terrorism was gone

Aren't we talking about islamic extremists? It's not like they're the only terrorists in the world. Half the governments in Africa achieved their position through the use of terrorism. Nelson Mandela lead the ANC which commited numerous acts of terrorism, and was closely associated with even more violent groups such as PAC and POQO. I guess you'd need to get rid of a fair chunk of Africa as well as a fair chunk of the middle east to remove the threat of terrorism. I hear some Irish people commited a fair number of terrorist acts as well - so I guess we'd have to wipe out the irish sepperatists just to be sure they don't do it again. Oh, and religious gulf war veterans commit terrorist acts - so we better get rid of them as well. And lets not forget people with development delays and personality disorders - they probably need to be wiped out as well.

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I think Bush said a few times that Saddam had links to Al-Qaeda so people think there were Al-Qaeda training camps throughout Iraq preparing to attack us.

How many of these camps have they found, or sources of evidence of this attack plan? Almost as many as the WMD's they've uncovered?

Saddam was a very bad person. But Iraq was probably the most gender equalitarian islamic nation, and had one of the most moderate religious views of all the arabic nations. The religious theocracy that has come into power post Saddam has set gender rights back 30 years in Iraq. And while I'm not necessarily opposed to the US govt going out and righting wrongs in the world using military power - there's no reasonable criteria I've ever seen that makes Iraq or Saddam the first priority for righting those wrongs. There are lots of people in the world who suck way more.

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11 Jan 2008, 6:52 pm

Chuchulainn wrote:

If anyone looks at the past, present, or future, and isn't brainwashed it's obvious Christianity is superior to Islam. Muslims are poor, violent and uneducated. Christians are rich, peaceful and for the most part educated. Christian art is far superior to Islamic art in my opinion. How many books by Muslim authors have you read? Without Christianity, there is no freedom or democracy.

Of course, ignorant pigs will be ignorant pigs.

you've been watching too much john hagee son

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12 Jan 2008, 6:53 am

Chuchulainn wrote:

How long will this one take??

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12 Jan 2008, 8:56 pm

alex wrote:

Chuchulainn wrote:

Muslims are poor, violent and uneducated.

Sorry but that crosses the line. Goodbye.

But there is a grain of truth there. Islam, like all religions, is a tool of the ruling class who seek to reduce the population to ignoranc and subservience. The statement, that Muslims are poor, violent and uneducated is simply saying that Islam has done its job. It's not a statement about the people themselves, simply the virus that has destroyed them.

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