My first try at translating Hebrew w helps

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Where God is speaking to Job? I suppose trying to decide the difference between behemah and behemot was interesting since plural doesn't fit the context.

Thanks Jon,

Ben.

Yes, that's roughly the place. In particular, Job's replies were of more interest to me. I quite enjoyed studying Job, to be honest. It's my favorite book, bar none. But for what moves us towards a more ennobling nature and out of my liberal minded views that we should endevour to lift ourselves from selfishness and superstitious fear, I'd have to go with parts of Matthew and Luke.

Jon

You mean the Sermon on the Mount?

Roughly, yes.

A set of "parallels" and concordances are absolutely essential, I think, for studying the gospels. A parallel lays original composite texts (fragments are found in different places and if I remember, the earliest known fragments of the new testament are pieces of Matthew in the later chapters [circa 25 and 26] and kept at Magdalene College, Cambridge, if memory serves) in parallel form -- you may see a Greek column, another Greek column, yet another column with Latin and Greek intermixed, and an English translation in parallel form. The alignments chosen for a parallel may be chosen differently by different authors to emphasize different aspects. So just be aware. But they are VERY helpful tools in reconstruction and investigation.

Matthew and Luke, in particular, bring in the subject of Q. Adolf von Harnack's "Sprüche und Reden Jesu" is one of the earliest books I have read on Q, and it includes valuable tables of vocabulary and useful information about syntax, style, contintuent forms and the original order. The next year, G. H. Müller's "Zur Synopse: Untersuchung über die Arbeitsweise des Lk and Mt und Ihre Quellen" added a lot to analysis about the extent and order. I don't know if these have been since translated to English, but it's common for those specializing in theology/religious studies to be required eventually to have good proficiency in at least two important languages for their studies -- and those two are usually French and German. No French for me, but I'm reasonably proficient at German. Those books I mentioned above are from the first decade of the 1900's. But there are many more recent ones also in German; such as, Siegfried Schulz's "Griechisch-deutsche Synopse der Q-Überlierferungen" in 1972 and Dieter Lührmann's "Synopse der Q-Überlierferungen" in 1985. A lot of analysis is written in German, so it's probably the more important one to learn some of.

In English, you might look at James Robinson's "The Sermon on the Mount/Plain: Work Sheets for the Reconstruction of Q" in 1983. Also, look up Harry Fleddermann. Both have written a lot, so you should find a number of references on this subject. Oh, John Kloppenborg is another author of a book or two I have here.

Matthew and Luke are probably close to contemporaneous writings. Mark a decade or two earlier and there is probably no question that Matthew and Luke had access to Mark when they started. John almost definitely decades later and, to my mind, John stands singularly apart from the other three gospels.

Anyway, when I refer to "ennobling nature" and "lift ourselves from selfishness and superstitious fear" I am referring mostly to the "sayings of Jesus," which is roughly what Quelle (Q) amounts to. That is the core source that, along with Mark, played into Matthew and Luke with such power.

I also find Paul's 'theology' to be very difficult to reconcile with that found in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. In fact, contradictory. And between you and me, I have kind of tentatively concluded that Paul was actually just a "confidence man" going around taking advantage of Christian communities, far and wide, mercilessly and without remorse, for his own profit.

Jon

Learning the Lingo topic

This topic has developed more into the mutual special interest of Iamnotaparakeet and Jonk. I will be brief.

I will only say that of all the languages that are written in a different alphabet and read from right to left, Hebrew is the easiest as it is all phonetics and the lots of word roots leading to other words so vocabulary is increased. the grammar is also not difficult. I began a brief study of Hebrew 25 years ago and since I was planning to eventually take a trip to Israel, I should resurrect the study. I would find it much easier if there were courses. But it is a great language to read, and write, as I suck at oral English anyway!! !