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Have you ever seen a ghost

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KingofKaboom
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30 May 2008, 9:08 am

Nope never have, but I do believe in something being there that we can't see and is sentient dunno what it is though having never felt it myself :?


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Sand
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30 May 2008, 9:41 am

If you have never confronted it in any way why are you so sure it exists?



KingofKaboom
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30 May 2008, 10:22 am

Sand wrote:
If you have never confronted it in any way why are you so sure it exists?

Never seen oxygen but I know it exists and I've felt it all in my lungs, and people I trust say that it does. So it's like this I've never SEEN them but I've felt things and people who've earned my trust say they have had experiences with them, they may not be real can't really say for certain but I do believe nonetheless. :)


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D1nk0
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30 May 2008, 10:25 am

merr wrote:
or anything that you are certain you cannot rationally explain, but you are sure you have actually seen something?


I have never seen one, but I believe I just mightve heard one when I was 2 years old. Furthermore there was a time in the summer of 1999(in Seattle,WA) where I *sensed* the presence of some kind of unseen force but there was nothing my 5 senses detected which was out of the ordinary but I was damn sure there was something there-but it was not human nor had it ever dwelled inside a human body! It was something from beyond.....Its SO HARD to describe the state of mind when you react emotionally to something that is invisible, inaudiable, and untouchable but your mind is thoroughly convinced that something is actually there. :skull:



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30 May 2008, 11:15 am

hale_bopp wrote:
No, but I have enough evidence to support the theory that spirits are real.

Care to elaborate?


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Sand
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30 May 2008, 11:15 am

Sorry, oxygen doesn't do it. There are many many ways to detect oxygen. Admittedly, delusions can be scary, but that doesn't stop them from being delusions. But hell, I don't expect to convince you, and until I've encountered a demon or two, don't expect to convince me.



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30 May 2008, 11:41 am

Sand wrote:
As a matter of fact you don't see anything that doesn't exist in the visual cortex. Your visual world does not exist outside the visual cortex.
:roll:


Im sorry, but philosophically, logically, and experimentally that is not true. There Really Is an objective reality that is completely seperate from what your brain percieves. The visual cortex processes what your eyes detect and feeds the data to your frontal lobe; that is really where you see. Now are you a dialectical materialist Sands? Because I am certainly not :wink: . When I think about what my brain precieved to be around me but didnt 'sense' I really have to wonder what the TRUTH is. You can deploy occams razor on me but is the simple explanation the actual TRUTH? Not always......



Last edited by D1nk0 on 30 May 2008, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KingofKaboom
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30 May 2008, 11:46 am

Sand wrote:
Sorry, oxygen doesn't do it. There are many many ways to detect oxygen. Admittedly, delusions can be scary, but that doesn't stop them from being delusions. But hell, I don't expect to convince you, and until I've encountered a demon or two, don't expect to convince me.

And there are ways to detect ambient energy ie ghosts, ever heard of Ghost Hunters or TAPS? they get voices recoreded of people who aren't there and they find weird temps in a localized area like 2 feet bubbles of 50 degrees in a 78 degree room. And I don't have to convince you to believe myself :)


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monty
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30 May 2008, 11:49 am

Transcranial magnetic stimulation of certain parts of the brain can induce a feeling of divine or supernatural presence.



Sand
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30 May 2008, 12:31 pm

I'm not trying to convince anybody that there's nothing out there. Something is stimulating the visual cortex but how you interpret what that might be and how it relates to everything else makes all the difference.



D1nk0
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30 May 2008, 12:36 pm

Sand wrote:
Sorry, oxygen doesn't do it. There are many many ways to detect oxygen. Admittedly, delusions can be scary, but that doesn't stop them from being delusions. But hell, I don't expect to convince you, and until I've encountered a demon or two, don't expect to convince me.



If souls and spirits exist the question that comes to my mind is: WHAT are they *made of*? Do they have Mass? What Im curious about are the claims by Paranomal investigators about small areas where there is a sudden loss of heat. As if something is drawing energy out of the air. Now I will NOT make a definitive claim about whether or not ghost exist, BUT absence of evidence does NOT automatically equate to evidence of absence.Also we are not talking about Demons we are talking about Ghosts. The former has religious implications and thats a WHOLE different ballpark.

Sand wrote:
I'm not trying to convince anybody that there's nothing out there. Something is stimulating the visual cortex but how you interpret what that might be and how it relates to everything else makes all the difference.


Please answer my question: ARE YOU a dialectical materialist? I am a materialist but NOT a dialectical one :lol: .



Last edited by D1nk0 on 30 May 2008, 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

KingofKaboom
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30 May 2008, 12:41 pm

D1nk0 wrote:
Sand wrote:
Sorry, oxygen doesn't do it. There are many many ways to detect oxygen. Admittedly, delusions can be scary, but that doesn't stop them from being delusions. But hell, I don't expect to convince you, and until I've encountered a demon or two, don't expect to convince me.



If souls and spirits exist the question that comes to my mind is: WHAT are they *made of*? Do they have Mass? What Im curious about are the claims by Paranomal investigators about small areas where there is a sudden loss of heat. As if something is drawing energy out of the air. Now I will NOT make a definitive claim about whether or not ghost exist, BUT absence of evidence does NOT automatically equate to evidence of absence.Also we are not talking about Demons we are talking about Ghosts. The former has religious implications and thats a WHOLE different ballpark.

See my above post :P


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Sand
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30 May 2008, 12:52 pm

I have no idea what a dialectical materialist might be. If people can see the Virgin Mary in a toasted cheese sandwich or a blotch on a wall, when they are in a susceptible state between waking or sleeping anything might be interpreted as what they had been led to suspect. For years phlogiston was accepted as real and spacial ether also until it became obvious through better thinking that these were mere theoretical artifacts.



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30 May 2008, 1:14 pm

Sand wrote:
Don't be sure if you've never tried it. The ghost may be Jewish or Muslim.


In that case, just use a pork chop. Pork is the kryptonite of Muslims and Jews. :wink:



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30 May 2008, 1:15 pm

Sand wrote:
I have no idea what a dialectical materialist might be. If people can see the Virgin Mary in a toasted cheese sandwich or a blotch on a wall, when they are in a susceptible state between waking or sleeping anything might be interpreted as what they had been led to suspect. For years phlogiston was accepted as real and spacial ether also until it became obvious through better thinking that these were mere theoretical artifacts.


What's phlogiston? I've never heard of it.



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30 May 2008, 1:37 pm

See http://www.jimloy.com/physics/phlogstn.htm