Do you believe in God?

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What being blind and being deaf have to do with atheism exactly?

Blind: if you mean that by watching nature and think of the beauty of nature explaining itself, then that becomes an aesthetic fallacy.

Deaf: The same by sounds of nature, or maybe you mean something else?

AFAIK, no empirical evidence exist, to be able to actually say one is blind to not see it, on the contrary, many people for whatever deep belief they have, about anything, can be blinded (for whatever reason) for not accepting evidence provided, but there are reasons of why some people reject or accept some ideas.

I don't agree with atheism, but I could say that to any belief system, it is understandable why different people have different beliefs.

I'm an agnostic; I'm surprised that I haven't seen any others posting here. Albert Einstein once professed a position on theology which sums up my own views fairly well: "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." Personally, I don't believe in a deity in the classical sense of the entire archetype of an anthropomorphic divinity responsible for creating everything. I'm more inclined to think of God as less a willful intelligent entity and more a governing force of the Universe-- the conduit between chaos and order. To me, God is the sun coming up each day, and setting each night. God is the Fibonacci spiral within a sunflower head, and the color of the sky at sunset, and the water cycle, and the cycle of life. I must also admit that I've seen some remarkable things in the course of my life, things which seem to defy logical explanation-- those are acts of God. However, personally, I sort of feel that it is vain of us as a species to attibute things of that nature to a being who, omnipotence or not, ultimately resembles us.

I'm not trying to be rude, but what is your point? I gave my opinion as others have here, and if that is my belief, then it is my belief. I don't think I demand respect for my beliefs from people anymore. I doubt there is going to be some wave in the minds of people to make them think "I should respect their beliefs." I do, however, respect other people's beliefs (as in accepting they have a different view), but that doesn't mean that I view them positively. No, I think many people have horrible beliefs (corresponding to anything). Sometimes I prefer not to say anything and other times I can come across pretty blunt.

I'm not insulting nor do I try to be, but I have become aware that my views can come across insulting and even obnoxious. I tend to be pretty unattached to my own words and especially the emotions of others. I'm not the most empathic person. Sympathetic and with pity, yes; empathic, definitely not. So as you can somewhat tell, I don't see what the big deal is.




I consider a person who does not believe in the existence of God to be blind to the reality which is God, and deaf to the calls of the Lord. It all basically stems from an outlook I have on myself, my previous views etc. I am not going to go in detail to explain or defend my position (in relation to what you are asking) as I am not in any mood to do so. Perhaps some other time. I don't mind responding to PM's, eventually.

I also don't think this is an argument which either of us can prove right or wrong, except on an emotional level corresponding to our own views. This is not something where one person can give proof (evidence) and shut the other person up and change his mind. It is mostly an argument of words and emotions. I don't think anyone can give you proof to support or negate my view, no matter how popular or unpopular it may be. It is all personal. In my opinion, all of this is.

To add, I don't view nature as beautiful. So your explanation of my view was quite wrong. I must help you out here though since many on this board constantly misinterpret my comments, I tend to make posts with different meanings and as such should not be taken literally, nor at times seriously. However, I have come to believe that it is too much to ask for on this board.

Of course you should respect my belief, because it is better than yours!!


I kinda realised that was what you meant by deaf, from an agnostic point of view, questioning things until getting empirical evidence of claimed events and stuff, is the best approach, it is exactly the opposite of being blind and deaf, I would assume in the logical sense that you might be one who would actually fall into that of what you are accusing "irreligous" people of being of.

It is funny you don't accept agnosticism and think of it as nonexistent, you must be so blind and so deaf to not see it


I see no point on speaking about these things on PM, you can't defend your position because it comes out just a belief of yours and your own point of view, you just admitted that you can't provide evidence to support your views, how can we claim such certainty if we can't prove it? so you kinda admitted those are just your opinions and nothing else?


That's nice, so a belief being a belief doesn't necessarily mean to be factual, right?

Greenblue, I guess I'll go into detail here as I didn't feel like doing so last time:

I firmly believe that the best irrefutable evidence for God is based on experience. The skeptic will think these are mere tricks of the mind and I would consider him foolish for doing so. Questioning is something that must be done "What is God, what is not God" this is acceptable, and was one among other things which brought me to the conclusion that all of this is because of God; another being submission. Those who do not reach the conclusion I consider them blind and deaf. Simple. If you are asking me for facts, the fact that I am here is proof enough for me. When I stated to you that it is personal, think about it. How can I or others emulate for you experiences? If you have never known love, what use would an explanation or research of it solve or prove? It won't get you any closer to the truth. You'll be blinded by the movements of the objects before you without any discernment of what lies inside each. You must experience it for yourself. Until then, you are destitute. You might be of the type to not accept this path as true, and like I stated, I would consider its opposition foolish.

As I explained in the other thread, agnosticism is not a middle way between theism and atheism. You can argue that it is, but for the most part it is atheism. The only way agnosticism is viable is if the philosophy dictates that there is no proof for or against, but even then the person still has his bias. God is not a science which people try to make it out to be. If you try to search for a physical form of God, I hope you live a long time. In this sense, agnosticism becomes the most stupid path of all.

You are trying to get me to open up a little bridge to allow credibility for the other view to exist. That is not possible, nor is it going to happen. I find the other view false. If you question God to your death bed, I would consider your knowledge to have been the incorrect one and your life useless. No apologies from me, and I demand no apologies from others who view my beliefs negatively.

The knowledge of God is simple to attain. It is out there in the open and within you to receive. If you haven't reached that conclusion then what good can be said of you? This is why I equate the atheist as being blind and deaf to God, blind and deaf to his senses, blind and deaf to scripture and the world. They put too much effort on logic and science, yet they miss the point completely. Better the ignorant follower than the atheist and the skeptic. He devoid of any intellectual reasoning is still wiser than the other two.

So in short, unless you are devoted to God, your life is worthless. You and others might be insulted and feel the need to attack my view, but I am not going to be apologetic. Even some people who may believe in God might find my views extremely negative, but I don't consider God to be something that can be pushed aside like other bits of information or objects. If you are not committed then what's the point in believing? Too many people step on their own beliefs to facilitate another trampling on it. And even others ignore what is before them in order to make those against them smile. I need not push aside my beliefs.

Did this come across negative? I am sure it did. Am I trying to be insulting? Not at all.

Does the Flying Spaghetti Monster count?

If not... then... no.

Sure, and I respect your belief.

But I would like it if you would also somewhat tolerate (even if you cannot understand) us who have no believe in a deity.

By suggesting atheists are deaf or blind you suggest that there is a concrete proof that god exists, while in fact this is not true. So you are somewhat saying "my belief is the only right one".
I can just as well say "scientific proof for everything is existing, so only those blind to see that would believe in God" - however, I prefer not to say such things because I respect other people who do believe in a god.

I think mutual respect is key. In the end nobody has insinuated or told you cannot believe in god if you wish to. However, claiming those who don't believe are blind or deaf is a bit preaching-esque as much as if an atheist would speak in negative terms of those who do have a faith.

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db ... =938#comic



You don't read enough comics.

Not really in the mood to debate theology at the moment, so I'll just stamp down a solid 'no' and we'll leave it at that.

Ha, actually I have thousands of comic books. But you are right, I haven't been reading them lately. They're mostly from the 70s and wrapped in in plastic, I fear I might tear them if I attempted to read them



I used to like reading Spider-Man especially the black costume series up until...



That whole series was just...What?

^ Sure, the arc sucked, but Ben's Spidey suit looked better, IMO.

No, no. You misunderstood my point. I am tolerable, but being that when words are devoid of their emotive nature they come across stern, bare, and at times excessively intolerable. I understand that mutuality and general brotherhood (so to speak) should be adhered to, but when it comes to politics and religion the familial bond breaks easily as a clay pot. I accept theism as the only correct view, I can't accept atheism as being an acceptable mode to live in. Yet I do not in any form or fashion attempt to change anyone's beliefs. Perhaps, this is a downfall of mine and can be due to selfishness, but I firmly do not believe a person can force another to believe nor should they try to destroy their culture. You and others have all the right to believe anything, but I cannot be forced to accept it as being right. However, I can just accept it as something to which you adhere to.

Other than that, it is not something that I can comment positively on. Oh, and I should clarify something:

The likeness of them is as the likeness of a man
who kindled a fire, and when it lit all about him
God took away their light, and left them in darkness
unseeing,
deaf, dumb, blind--
so they shall not return;

You should understand that I was referencing a verse from scripture when I used that in my previous comment.

I meant webcomics. Real comics are lame..... simply 'cause I said so.(ok, I actually just don't read many comicbooks)

I used to read Cyanide and Happiness if that counts?

[quote="oscuria"] I firmly believe that the best irrefutable evidence for God is based on experience. The skeptic will think these are mere tricks of the mind and I would consider him foolish for doing so.

This is a very naive opinion; personal experience has long been known to be unreliable, if not, we'd all believe the Earth is flat and the Sun goes around it. The truth is quite often contrary to personal experience.

[quote="oscuria"] So in short, unless you are devoted to God, your life is worthless.

Oh dear, I wouldn't want that; but which god exactly? Thor? Diana? Ganesha? Allah? Osiris? Ra? Krishna? Bit of a lottery isn't it? I hope for your sake you are worshipping the right one; I'm generous enough not to wish anyone a worthless life.

Remember that it's the narrow path that leads to salvation, you've got to get that part right. It's not enough to worship the right god, you also have to chose the correct squabbling denomination as well. It always tickles me a little that if any of these religions were right, plenty of devout worshippers from other faiths who got it wrong are going to hell - Ouch!

I generally try to have respect for other peoples opinions but not when it comes to god. Sorry but theists are deliberatly blind to science and the continual debunking of their theories. The main reson that I object to theist beliefs so strongly is their determination to control the world according to their faith. the funny thing is though that when they quote the bible as the book of life they ignore the bits they dont like, ignore the glaring contrdictions all the way through it, and make up garbage to support their veiw. Sorry but when a group of people try to affect my life and those around me with they delusional belifs I get really annoyed, have your religion and practice it the way your messiah (if your christian) told you too - IE dont judge, forgive, and pray to your god in private with the door shut, ( yes he did say that according to Mathew)