03 Aug 2008, 12:35 pm
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Averick
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03 Aug 2008, 1:03 pm
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pheonixiis
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03 Aug 2008, 1:29 pm
oscuria wrote:
Are you absolutely certain that your view is correct?
Good one.
Mwa ha ha ha...
Pot... kettle... black... on and on...
Overall though. Pretty good rant. I do agree with most of the general points though.
pheonixiis
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03 Aug 2008, 1:46 pm
slowmutant wrote:
This is a totally stupid argument. What are we trying to prove?
That an absolutist mentality has great potential to lead down the road of "evil", or at least justifying harm to others in the name of rightousness. I think the point was proved rather effectively with the vehemence and the absolute statements in the initial argument. Even if I personally agree with many of the points, the narrowness with which they were presented would discredit them to some and appeal to others with their simplicity and apparent certainty. In my opinion, (for what it is worth) of which I have so many.
Also, in my opinion; in my experience most people go with the "totally stupid.." sort of pat accusation when they sense they are losing an argument, or that their point is moot. Just a personal pet-peeve of mine. I had to bite. Please forgive me.
03 Aug 2008, 3:28 pm
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03 Aug 2008, 7:21 pm
twoshots wrote:
Screw that. In reality, there is no such thing as certainty in religion and morality, because there is no underlying reality to be uncovered. It is not that we do not know our position is "right", for what would it mean for it to be wrong, unless you can establish some kind of objective existence of morality. Likewise, you no more know that it is "better" to not do something to other people because of one's belief in a moral system because you have no better authority to appeal to than they do.
No certainty - only conviction.
Value is central to living. Second guessing is just creeping nihilism.
Now, you might say, from the subjective stance of a Christian there is in fact some kind of reality to be uncovered for right/wrong valuations because there is this notion of God. But then, since we can apply likewise a possibility of the judgement of God for any moral proposition, which would then be equally uncertain, stating that uncertainty implies inaction is a sort of false dichotomy. Perhaps God hates people who don't do things.
Of course, you have your 'evidence' that certainty leads to atrocity, but this fails because You have failed to demonstrate that the good that can be caused by individuals who believe whole-heartedly in the goodness of their work (of any kind, mind you, we need only that they have absolute certainty in the value that drives them, from social equality to God-knows-what) is in any way outweighed by the occasional organized atrocity. Maybe you can say, atrocity=>certainty, but then what of the converse?
No certainty - only conviction.
Value is central to living. Second guessing is just creeping nihilism.
Now, you might say, from the subjective stance of a Christian there is in fact some kind of reality to be uncovered for right/wrong valuations because there is this notion of God. But then, since we can apply likewise a possibility of the judgement of God for any moral proposition, which would then be equally uncertain, stating that uncertainty implies inaction is a sort of false dichotomy. Perhaps God hates people who don't do things.
Of course, you have your 'evidence' that certainty leads to atrocity, but this fails because You have failed to demonstrate that the good that can be caused by individuals who believe whole-heartedly in the goodness of their work (of any kind, mind you, we need only that they have absolute certainty in the value that drives them, from social equality to God-knows-what) is in any way outweighed by the occasional organized atrocity. Maybe you can say, atrocity=>certainty, but then what of the converse?
Oh..............................My.....................................f*****g..................................GAWD........................!
Does this mean that You Too are a Post-Modernist Mr. Twoshots?
BTW, the things the Nazis were absolutely certain about, well they were absolutely WRONG about(factually). As for religious organizations they are absolutely certain about are things that are non-falsifiable, for abosolute certainty does not exist.
To condemn absolutism and regard facts as being subject to interpretation can be equally as destructive because it makes the objective into subjective where what matters is percieved social authority.
03 Aug 2008, 8:14 pm
pheonixiis
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