*Faith! Trust, and AS*

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That would suggest that as soon as humans developed the brain capacity to understand that they would inevitably die, those people with the neurological ( or environmental ) programming for faith would have had a significant advantage, being better equipped psychologically to deal with the uncontrollable in life. Or? ...

Oddly enough studies have shown that AS are better at dealing with the seriously unexpected, accidents/emergencies etc, because they are used to processing data/handling situations from first principles. But perhaps the reason why the predictably uncontrollable ( illness and death in particular, but also other humans! ) freaks us out more is that we lack the ( hypothetical!) neural networks essential for faith.

And it's pissing me off! I would like to be able to take a little bit more on trust. And have faith in endeavours which I have trouble believing in from first principles of "probable outcome" etc.

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I'll buy that. I've stared down death a few times. It was only horrible afterwards.

As non-standard as I might be, whether or not I am an Asperger (I am not sure), I have been and am going through death threatening situations and find I can handle them so far. I have never engaged in military or criminal situations of great violence and hope never to have to so I cannot say what those situations might evoke. But I doubt that AS people have a monopoly on being able to endure and survive very bad times.

I didn't say that.

I referred to studies, ( I don't remember a link/name, sorry), which show that AS are good, better than NT, at responding efficiently in emergencies/catastrophic/completely unexpected disastrous or dangerous situations, because, whereas NTs tend to function on a repeated-formula basis, we are in the "habit" of assessing any/all situations from first principles.

What I am wondering is whether we find the predictably uncontrollable more difficult to handle than NTs, if the uncontrollable is something that is generally coped with by faith, ( as Haliphron suggested) , which AS do not seem programmed for. Endurance in particular; as in dealing with the regularly, repeatededly, uncontrollable in life.

Are trust and faith neurologically programmed? Is there something about certain kinds of neural network, or about certain sensory-processing types/metabolisms, which acts as obstacle to faith/trust?

Am thinking that this is another argument for the neurodiversity position; different neuro-types have different strengths, all of them valuable. Because faith/trust is valuable, despite the bad press it gets on WP, PPR especially ( ).

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Well Duh!

You know Sand, some people are more psychologically and emotionally adaptable than others. To accept something you cannot change, ESPECIALLY something that evokes negative emotions requires emotional adaptation. Some people simply CANNOT adapt emotionally without some kind of coping mechanism like faith for instance.

Last edited by Haliphron on 07 Oct 2008, 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Some people OK. Why Asperger people over any other types?

Because people on the Autistic spectrum like routine and are very resistant to change. Which results in them being rigid and
not adaptable.

Well, I have no problems establishing and breaking routines so maybe I'm not on the spectrum. I have other characteristics though that make me not sure.

Well Im not a psychiatrist so Im in no position to speculate about whether or not you have it but such is a characterstic of many folks on the spectrum.

The Bible is the Word set down by God, then translated by some priests into something that didn't paint them as idiots...

It suddenly occurred to me that perhaps faith only means anything important, valuable, special, to people who otherwise tend to question everything, need to understand exactly why, when, how, about something in order to believe in it.

To most NTs, who take so much on trust, who are less prone to questioning everything, faith is perhaps so normal it has in fact little value or significance.

This possibility makes me wonder, in consequence, whether many of the people through the ages who wrote and preached about the importance of faith were in fact somewhere on the spectrum, constructing mechanisms to help with what I think may be one of the biggest obstacles in the path of many AS, a neurologically determined inability to trust, ourselves and/or life, and may contribute to our executive functioning problems, ( difficulty achieving sustained productive effort, in carrying out long-term projects, etc, unless we are simply carried away by passion for the activity/interest, and achieve results that way, something which can not be relied on ), because we doubt anything which is not visible/immediate, concrete and/or fairly convincingly logical at every step.

Faith may be something religious/spiritual practices/concepts tried to teach to those who have difficulty doing it, us.
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Last edited by ouinon on 07 Oct 2008, 2:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

^ I don't know ... it seems that AS symptoms fit a lot of fundies, as well.

Maybe they disguise the physical clumsiness under the label of "Being Slain In The Holy Spirit"?

D'ya think?

Maybe in people unused to feeling faith/trust ( many fundamentalists, as you point out, may well be AS ), it could be intoxicating, like drinking alcohol. Which is why as Toad of Steel said you need to be careful choosing your faith/what you will have faith in. But once you do, perhaps it is like an incredible high, to feel that kind of trust in life.

Which might also explain why people become so committed, because the effects are so powerful.
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I am finding that simply understanding a little bit more what faith is, what it is useful for, and why I might need it particularly, ( as AS ), has already made it possible for me to say to my self, " Have faith!" and see an effect.

What saying "Have faith" ( in this case about necessarily longterm activity to achieve something) seems to do is switch off my unceasing questioning and doubting which otherwise undermines almost all of my efforts, ( other than those driven by sheer "need"/personal survival/care of my child etc).

It is interesting to experience/observe.

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Faith is still working. Am managing to "sustain productive effort" on one project, on my own initiative, for at least an hour a day, almost every day.

Something that I have wanted to do for 20 years, and till now only managed to do, at intervals, for a day or two, three at most, is happening. I am refusing to ask myself questions, not expecting/needing justifications, support or concrete proof that it will work, am not wondering what the point is, or how, or what or when ...

Just begun realising today that what has been feeling so fun, astonishing too, is also ever so slightly frightening.

Was wondering why, and think it may be because, not using faith, I have tended to do increasingly little, nothing much but feeding myself, ( and child, in my case), passing the time watching films and reading books that seem less and less interesting every year, ( and taking pleasure in trouncing orks using "objective" arguments, ), but now, using faith to, metaphorically, "walk on water", the spectres of potential failure begin to hold a threat, which previous, peaceful, "feet-relatively-on-the-ground" activity didn't expose me to.

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Was wondering whether one major reason why "faith" has such a bad name is because school, 6 hours a day, 5 days a week, for 14-16 years, practically forbids doubt/questioning, and imposes/superimposes a sort of "false faith", in which question nothing.

As soon as recover from that, and that can take years after leave school, ( if one recovers at all!) , for many of us questioning/doubt may seem like a thirst/hunger that has to be satisfied before can proceed anywhere of any significance.

I was 25 before started doubting and questioning, and have only just this last year or two felt that doubt has been "brought up to date" !