Atheism

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slowmutant
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26 Nov 2008, 11:19 am

SamAckary wrote:

Hey I wasn't trying to get people to think you need a reason, as I said all people are born atheist, I was merely wondering you opinions on the matter, chill guys

And I gave you my opinions on the matter. Having a certain worldview is perhaps not a conscious decision. I couldn't tel you why I am a religious person. I don't know why. Some people are religious, some aren't. Could it really be that simple?

Ask a gay guy why he likes other guys. Ask him when he made that decision.

Accelerator
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26 Nov 2008, 1:24 pm

z0rp wrote:

I don't know about ranting about hell, as that's actually less common lately but we're sure to hear scripture quoted from either Magnus, Accelerator or someone else.

Spoken like a true prophet........... ;-)

Yes.. we're the loyal opposition..

To theism (which includes A-theism).

Which was dead and buried more than 2000 years ago.

A-theist "soft-ware" needs up-dating.. :-)

Did Jesus explain the idea of God as being theist.. ?

If you believe he did..

Evidence please.

---

“No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him.”

John 1:18

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Henriksson
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26 Nov 2008, 2:11 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Direct personal experience is the only form of knowledge which cannot be debunked, discredited, or explained away. One's experiences, ie. his or her own personal truths, are perhaps the only form of knowledge that is absolutely unrefusable.

What about religious experiences that contradict each other?

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MR_BOGAN
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26 Nov 2008, 3:34 pm

My parents didn't teach me(brain wash me) about god or religion, so it's not my thing. I didn't actually know what an athiest was.

z0rp
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26 Nov 2008, 6:56 pm

Accelerator wrote:

z0rp wrote:

I don't know about ranting about hell, as that's actually less common lately but we're sure to hear scripture quoted from either Magnus, Accelerator or someone else.

Spoken like a true prophet........... ;-)

Yes.. we're the loyal opposition..

To theism (which includes A-theism).

Which was dead and buried more than 2000 years ago.

A-theist "soft-ware" needs up-dating.. :-)

Well first off, it seems I was right, as you did manage to quote scripture. Second the definition of theist would be: "Belief in the existence of a god or gods, especially belief in a personal God as creator and ruler of the world."

Your question was did Jesus explain the idea of God as being theist. Jesus, as written in the bible identified himself as God or the son of God. So I'd say sure as clearly he believed his father existed, but really your question doesn't make much sense to begin with. Also I don't see Jesus as a historical figure, I see him as a fictional or mythological figure so I don't even see why it matters what he said or did in the bible. But whatever really.

ducasse
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26 Nov 2008, 7:15 pm

Accelerator wrote:

theism (which includes A-theism).

you keep saying this but i've yet to read a coherent explanation of why you think this obvious absurdity is true?

Quote:

Did Jesus explain the idea of God as being theist.. ?

If you believe he did..

Evidence please.

how could it make any difference either way whether Jesus was a theist or not! before you start asking for evidence of this you really have to make clear why you think anyone should care about the attitude of the gospels to the idea of theism, & how its attitude could have any baring on the question of whether theism or atheism, or whatever, is correct?

To put it plainly, even if you were able to prove to everyone's satisfaction that the Jesus of the Gospels wasn't a theist, this wouldn't say anything at all about the larger question of the existence or non-existence of God, or whatever it is you're trying to establish (it is far from clear to me, though not, I think, because of any fault of mine)

slowmutant
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26 Nov 2008, 7:37 pm

Henriksson wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

What about religious experiences that contradict each other?

How can religious experiences contradict each other?

Letum
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26 Nov 2008, 8:17 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Henriksson wrote:

slowmutant wrote:

What about religious experiences that contradict each other?

How can religious experiences contradict each other?

'a' and 'b' are mutually exclusive.

God talks to someone and says "a" is, and will always be, true.
The next day god speaks again and says "b" is, and will always be, true.

or

Someone achieves enlightenment and realizes 'a' and 'b' to be a universal truths.

Either 'a' or 'b' (and therefor also the deduction from the experience(s): "'a' and 'b' are true") are untrue or it is untrue that 'a' and 'b' are mutually exclusive.

However, slowmutant is still right in that, regardless of the truth of the ontological deductions one makes from an experience, the fact that the phenomenal experience exists to some extent is, indeed, absolutely irrefutable for (and only for) the subject having the experience..

Last edited by Letum on 27 Nov 2008, 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

claire-333
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27 Nov 2008, 9:26 am

I really like your new avatar, Slowmutant.
It reminds me of the coexist bumberstickers I see from time to time.

SuperSteve
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27 Nov 2008, 10:04 am

I call myself an Agnostic Atheist: I don't presume to know that there are no higher powers, but I do not believe that there are. And if there is, then I firmly believe that the Abrahamic religions are pretty far off, given that their idea of God exhibit far too many human characteristics (and an uncanny weakness to iron chariots ) .

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slowmutant
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27 Nov 2008, 10:19 am

claire333 wrote:

I really like your new avatar, Slowmutant.
It reminds me of the coexist bumberstickers I see from time to time.

I like, I like. ^^

Accelerator
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27 Nov 2008, 12:19 pm

ducasse wrote:

Accelerator wrote:

theism (which includes A-theism).

you keep saying this but i've yet to read a coherent explanation of why you think this obvious absurdity is true? )

The only absurdity is that.. in this day and age.. people are still arguing over whether supernatural beings exist.. or not.

Isn’t it obvious.. ?

It has been known for a long time.. certainly more than 2000 years.. that religious scriptures are symbolic.. poetic.. metaphorical.. and not intended to be read literally. The scriptures themselves explain this quiet clearly.

To read the mythological stories of the bible.. and to understand them as being supernatural.. and then take the position of disbelieving.. is about as sane as saying “I disbelieve in Santa”

(which reminds me.. I need to get my chimney cleaned.. and get a carrot for the reindeer ;-)

)

Theism and A-theism are both based on the same illogical presumption that scripture should be read literally... which is why.. in my mind.. I place them together.. as being felow literalists.. getting in bed together.

Yet neither camp can provide the slightest bit of evidence.. if asked.. to back up such bizarre claims..

Therefore.. theism and A-theism are just a matter of blind faith.

The blind leading the blind.

----

"Hence they said to the blind man again: "What do you say about him, seeing that he opened your eyes?"

The man said: "He is a prophet."

And Jesus said: "For this judgment I came into this world: that those not seeing might see and those seeing might become blind."

John 9:13

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SamAckary
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27 Nov 2008, 1:42 pm

Atheism or A-Theism, your word usage seems strange, Atheists believe nothing, Theist believe in a supreme being, A-Theists believe in I do not know?

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Ah_Q
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27 Nov 2008, 1:45 pm

Accelerator, your posts are bizarre and it's hard to understand just what your getting at. Before anyone can write a proper response, you need to explain your position more clearly.

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SamAckary
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27 Nov 2008, 1:50 pm

I agree mate, A-Theism?

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Accelerator
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27 Nov 2008, 1:56 pm

SamAckary wrote:

Atheism or A-Theism, your word usage seems strange, Atheists believe nothing, Theist believe in a supreme being, A-Theists believe in I do not know?

If they believe nothing.. then why classify themselves as A-theist.

Some one who believes nothing needs no clasification.

I do not know.. is agnostic.

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