911 A Proven Fraud

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The "truth" about 911 topic

Here we go with another "truth" scenario about something extraordinary. Did the moon landing happen, did the Holocaust really happen? What about other genocides? Or were they dreams in an actor's head?

Events happen. How we choose to deal with them is another matter. And this is where some people get sticky, religious, political, and conspiratorial.

And what about those UFO sightings? Did they really happen? For this, I do not know or care. I do know why there are conspiracy theories abounding on this issue. It is a matter of trust, especially of government. I am not equating UFOs with 911, as there is obviously more at stake here.

Of course--except to hardcore fans--UFO sightings, like Elvis sightings, or Bigfoot, or whatever, are "hope" these "events" did happen. The others I mentioned are all in denial at some point.

I have always been curious as to why some events are denied and some are affirmed.

Watergate was a conspiracy, and it failed because there was an internal leak. However JFK was not, or at least not to the extent people claim. So often I see people completely ignore who Lee Harvey Oswald actually was (he was actually a retired Sniper with soviet sympathies), or fail to properly analyze the so called "magic bullet" (a proper analysis shows it moved in a perfectly straight path). At most a KGB agent may of encouraged his actions, but even that would of been done without the approval or knowledge of the high ranking soviet officials, since they knew very well that assassinating the American president could trigger a nuclear war.

I think it's very clear that a conspiracy the size of 9/11 would of had multiple internal leaks, it would have to involve hundreds of people from different branches of the government, you can't keep a lid on something like that. Especially since whoever could produce absolute proof of conspiracy from the inside would have their name go down into the history books for all time.

The benefactors of that information are not unknown - though - and by definition it clearly illustrates a CONSPIRACY, no?>rhetorical...of course it does! However - not one profiteer has been questioned over this matter - that again is a matter of public record - but it's all hushed up you see...you won't see it in the new york times or on cnn or fox etc - it's no no subject - taboo. These people who perpetrate these crimes - they are unimaginably rich in this debt based racket of a FIAT financial system - don't worry I'm sure we'll have some interesting conversations along the way, Orwell. I'm interested in you points of view too - I'm always interested in those who engage these debates intelligently without just being reactionary and whining " conspiracy theorists believe in lizard ufo's on the moon - they are all fantasists- etc

peace

I can't watch the videos as I only have dial-up internet. I remember seeing lots of footage at the time on TV though of the planes hitting. I'd always assumed that conspiracy theories about 9/11 being an inside government job were preposterous, but as there are people here who support those theories can I just ask a few innocent questions? I'm not flaming, frankly I don't have time or sufficient belief in a conspiracy to go reading lots of websites for myself.

1) Why would the government do it?

What would be so absolutely important as to:
a) Justify killing so many Americans?
b) Justify the risk of being found out to be conclusively an inside job?

2) Whatever the motive there must have been much simpler ways of achieving whatever the objective was?

3) How could they possibly hope to cover it up. Governments trip up all the time trying to hide trivial things; hell Clinton couldn't even get his winkle sucked without the world knowing about it. Surely something this big would surely leak like a sieve... and I mean leak so bad that people would be in prison now - bigger scandal than Watergate etc; not just limited to the realm of conspiracy theorists?

Evidence please?


No, it really isn't. You are the one advocating a fringe view. The burden of proof is on you, and the impetus to do the work is on you. I have other things to do with my time.


Well, I'm not going to waste time doing research if the person who wants to convince can't even be bothered to do it. Give me links.


Yet you expect me to?


Is there really any fundamental difference between fiat currency and commodity-based currency, aside from the lack of flexibility inherent in the latter? I think what you are complaining about is fractional reserve banking, which has been around since long before fiat currency was standard.

Oh! Lookie there...shiny new avatars this morning.
*Ducks back behind the curtain to voyeuristically watch this thread*

Yes, but we know you are out there now. A spy in our midst, reporting back to the men in black suits.

There's really no need to adopt such a combative demeanor. I don't expect you to do anything - I simply said unless you have really looked into it, it is unfair to make pejorative claims as to the nature of the 'conspiracy theorist' and their 'crackpot theories' because put bluntly, unless you have spent the time on it, you are going to be largely uninformed - it's just common sense, it's not an insult.

NO, I'm afraid you're mistaken - the fractional reserve banking is a relatively new concept - it's inception being in the 19th century - again - check your facts! I object to debt based fractional reserve banking YES! only a fool or a tycoon wouldn't!! - the 'financial crash' is something which will ALWAYS occur with repetition and regularity in a debt based FIAT system - it has to! For the very system to perpetuate - unfortunately those that realise this who are in a position of wielding financial weight can greatly profit from such crashes ergo sometimes they try and encourage the conditions in which it can happen - don't believe me - then ask George Soros - he's very happy at how well he's doing in this current meltdown - he was writing op-eds about it just a few days ago. Don't take my word for it read up on what economic theorists say about the prevailing system we are in *shrugs*

Thanks, I am aware of the hallmarks of classic debating - but the onus is NOT on me to provide proof to you as I am not trying to convince you of anything - as much as you may think otherwise - rather, I am just stating my own perspectives as you are too. I have offered background and facts that you can explore for yourself.. I suggest if you really want to debate these things then start a thread on our forum which is dedicated by purpose for such.

No links, no debating proofs - I am surely entitled to profer my informed opinion free from derision - should you wish to raise specific points I will converse with you, no problem but I have enough 'debates' going as it is, to find warrant in trying to prove 911 was multi faceted operation obviously very different to the sanctioned account. None of 'us lot' are up for going through it all again bullet point by bullet point for the likes of those that still haven't managed to see through the deceptions. sorry - there's more pressing matters now tbh...

As said, I'm not trying to 'convince' you so it's not a case that I 'can't be bothered' to provide links or what not for you. Don't be so rude anyway lol I think you might have confused me with a the prevailing stereotype of somebody who is on 'a mission to evangelise to the unconverted' - I'm not, the thread was/is about a question surrounding 911 so I replied - simple as chips - I am under no burden to satisfy you in the capacity of guide. As said, look for yourself - or not..just don't pretend you know a great deal about it or presume to say you know all about 'conspiracy theorists' as it isn't true...you have other things to do with your time - no problem - enjoy that

1) one could cite many feasible reasons pertaining to the political situation at that time - the obvious one was they wanted to prosecute a war for economic and territorial purposes - one which is still going on and showing no sign of ending - conversely showing signs of escalating - oh joy

I don't think they had have any fear of being busted tbh - untouchables whilst people are a few moves behind. I'd say read the grand chessboard by Z. Brezinski - wow, it has some real classy quotes in it - of course the language is very academic and intentionally hard to fathom

Kill so many people - terrorise the populace - it's what terrorists do - people realise now they must sacrifice liberty for security. people understand why the no fly list is so aggressive. they understand that private groups like blackwater are being tasked with working alongside seasmurf to maintain domestic control should people start getting questions in their heads. You should understand that you have a value on the stockmarket - if you look to official state documents your name will be in CAPITALS - it is legalism - that is an entity that you agree to represent - not actually you. If you don't believe me read up on it - you can find a lot out here www.thinkfree.ca - a Canadian site but the premise stands in all the post colonies of the UK. Perhaps consider looking at maritime admiralty law to - hopefully you'll never end up in 'the dock' being questioned by a 'vessel' of the state It's interesting stuff and not a little surprising or unsettling. This is real stuff that most people are precluded from by simply not being aware of it.

Aside from the economic and political motivations I think one of the biggest factors was to traumatise people - that's why it wasn't something 'simpler' - it won't be the last one either...it wasn't the first. Take a look at the european press - I dont know about American MSM so much but here in Europe it's openly being discussed that for all intent and purpose it seems many Global Northern states seem to be moving in the direction of the archetypal orwellian police state, thoughtcrime and unaccountable autocracy, surveillance - bio ethics as a byword for neo eugenicism etc etc. Genetics is a fascinating subject in this framing.

Clinton wasn't the first president to have an affair lol - he was outed on purpose - these people are just puppets.. who do their job and get their reward - they don't really make the policy decisions. come on gimme a break - from Cromwell on it has always been behind the scenes - the prince by Machievelli - a good book to be familiar with..

They aren't worried about being busted at the very worst the useful puppet will take the fall *shrugs* Governments infrastructures when used properly do NOT equate to ineptitude - for God's sake - you were made to think GWBush was a complete ignoramus - granted he might not have been the smartest cookie and often made a fool of himself - but he wasn't the complete idiot that you were made to think - although he was/is just another puppet from an elite family. Weird how pretty much all these presidents going back in history have genealogical ties to old money in Europe. An amazing coincidence! Perhaps, we are dumbed down - perhaps there is a super strata of society for want of a better expression - one which fanatically only interbreeds with it own 'class' - that would explain why so many people in successive admintrations all seem to share common ancestry..other than that it is one of the most amazing coincedences I've ever read about - even more so than those attacks in New York,Washington and London bearing the exact same MO as the dummy mock exercises that happened to be occuring concurrently. Maybe your in a farm and have a value on the stock market as a transferable commodity that can be used as COLLATERAL - it seems to be how IMF structural loans function in 3rd world countries if you care to look into it - I don't understand why folk in the so called 1st world assume that the rules are any different in their lands *shrugs* 911 and 7/7 were false flag operations.

If you want to watch an excellent BBC documentary (main stream yeah?) about the fabrication of Al Queda by the neo-conservative current over a 2 and half decade history then I highly recommend 'The Power of Nightmares' by Adam Curtis. Good luck

Wells it's good you didn't just reel out the same old tired prejudicial nonsense in writing words yet essentially saying nothing. Well done! It's such a bore when people still do that, it's like they can't think for themselves properly and just blurt out what is acceptable and supposed to be thought and recited again and again practically verbatim - like it never gets dull! tsk tsk. I'm glad you are of more substance than that.

anyway mmstick - this is your thread and I don't wish to hijack it - no pun intended. sorry I just had to respond to some of the comments

I have looked into it, and found the "government conspiracy" hypothesis unsatisfactory for a variety of reasons.


Yes, relatively new, but still predating the widespread adoption of fiat currency. Anyways, fractional reserve banking is a useful system. Try having investment without it.


Why? When you write "FIAT" (all caps) are you referring to fiat currency or something else? I don't really see any reason why fiat currency must lead to a collapse- indeed, I think it is probably less likely to result in financial crashes than commodity-based money. I may be wrong, as I have only studied 200-level micro- and macro-economics and not any of the more advanced stuff, but my view on this does not seem to be repudiated by a large number of better-informed thinkers in economics so I think it is a safe stance until I see strong evidence to the contrary. In any case, at this point I'm curious if you even have much idea what you're talking about in relation to "debt-based FIAT" as you like to call it.


OK, but to do so I would really have to know which alternate view you hold to. I'll assume you believe 9/11 to have been carried out by the US government. My question is: what specific evidence do you have that implicates persons working for the US government in the attacks of 9/11? I don't mean such indirect evidence as "This part of the official story doesn't make sense, therefore Cheney piloted the planes by remote control." I mean actual reason to believe anyone from the US government was directly involved in the planning or execution of the terrorist attacks. Is there anything that would be admissible in a court of law?


So you're only willing to preach to the converted? Seems rather pointless, and it wouldn't really get you anywhere.


Such as? I'd think that if you were aware of such convincing evidence that something like 9/11 was very different from what it appeared, there would be significant motivation to tell everyone what really happened, and explain to them how you know this to be true.

There was a blantant cover-up of some events on 9/11, such as the plane that was shot down in Pa.

Some people made alot of money off 9/11.

9/11 was a excuse for war which made more people, more money.

I'm not saying it was planned, but it was manipulated for the gain of few.

If your saying that they were used as awkward strategic allies in the past then yes, I'd hope that's common knowledge.



Well, that depends if you believe that Russia is in on it as well as the U.S.. Russia of course wants to put a pipeline through to Iran and wants to have resource control of the middle east via natural gas. The dissapearance of the Soviet Uniion over the course of the last 15 years has shown both what issues it concealed (ie. the baltic) as well as many of its bordering middle-east country's issues (Afghanistan, Pakistan) and of course Russia being a land-locked country would like to have more access to the seas. We had concerns that Russia would want to retake its satellite states, in some places it did, thankfully our recent nightmare with the economic crash and housing bubble had the indirect effect of cutting their oil revenues and thankfully that helped to calm things a little for the time being.

The world is and always has been filled with these kinds of power plays though, it doesn't need orchestration from on high, if one wanted to give a cavelier example of it it's like about 5 or 6 people sitting around playing R.I.S.K. - yes, real damage, real pain, death, and destruction of the personal level but not an issue of concert.



*Really* creepy. Our current liberalism seems like its going in a brown-shirt direction, it has been for quite some time and I'm sure Jonah Goldberg has to be feeling rather well vindicated - probably much to his chagrin though. At least I'd hope that the more the new liberalism gets shoved down people's throats the more people will identify that with 'sheeple' rather than conservatism, the self-appointed 'intellectuals' I'm afraid have been on the wrong side of the fight for quite a while.

Excuse for a war? I point out that Iraq was not attacked until March of 2003. That is over 1.5 year interval interval. If 9/11 was a fraud perpetrated to justify a war, why the year and a half wait. The logical time to go to war would be while people's tempers were high and raw. And why against Iraq which had nothing to do with 9/11. I would say 9/11 and the Iraq war were rather distantly related.

ruveyn

Those who claim that the events of September 11 were the result of a US government conspiracy are either delusional or deceitful. In other words, there was no US government involvement in those events before or while they happened, and the "911 Conspiracy Theorists" have either fooled themselves into believing otherwise, and/or they are trying to incite distrust in the US government and foment insurrection against it with their convoluted lies and deceptions.

Show's over, kiddies! The circus has packed up and left town! Go back to your video games and Harry Potter fantasies...