National Service for the US?

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In the sense of the 13th amendment it is also involuntary servitude. Do you like slavery?

ruveyn

No, I'm not a fan of slavery... but the 13th Ammendment was never intended to outlaw a military draft, or a non-military equivalent.

Sure let's go for it. I wasn't using my civil liberties anyway.

It was intended to outlaw involuntary servitude except as a punishment for crimes as prescribed by law. Non-voluntary service is servitude simpliciter therefore it it violates the plain language of the 13th amendment.

The 13th amendment did not make exceptions for a draft into military service or any other service.

ruveyn

The "plain language" of a document is often quite different from the meaning of the words, and it is anyone's guess as to how such discrepancies are resolved; the "original intent" is generally considered, and is sometimes the key factor in court decisions to interpret the Constitution. The original intent of the 13th was only to end slavery; we have had several drafts since then, and they were not found to be in violation of the Constitution.

GTFO, don't hijack this thread with the the same exact idea from your other 3 threads.

and I am against this, you want to serve, seve, I don't.

Well, there are some problems with this being mandatory. Would people get paid? Would there be enough time to go to school? Enough time to work? What if it's against your religion somehow (like the Amish)?
Not only that, but volunteerism has been rising on its own: http://news.bostonherald.com/news/hard_ ... _the_rise/ . So do we really need the government to make this mandatory? Times are tough right now, and at times like these, people tend to pull together on their own. It's just like post-WWII Europe or the USA during the Great Depression. As things continue to get worse, there will be even more rise in volunteerism.
Like your Teach for America plans, for example. You're doing that by your own volition. You don't need the government to MAKE you.

Just as a side note: If I were you, I'd go read some peoples' accounts about Teach for America before you go into it. I looked into it too, and it sounds like it would kill my spirit... personally.

It would be a joke. Have any of you ever worked with people who clearly didn't want to be there were you work for your pay and others just slack off? Your better off without them. And besides Who is going to pay them? Where is this money coming from? No thanks and that's not even going into the civil liberties involved.

In the simplest example of enlisting people for public works projects, probably the government would cover modest living arrangements for the duration of service. If the service were, say, immediately after high school, then college would follow the service. Everyone would still be starting university at roughly the same age. A secondary job outside the service being performed would be unlikely. I doubt peaceful projects would be very objectionable to many, but exceptions for the Amish would probably be made. Of course, the Amish are quite content to use our infrastructure and roads, so I don't see why they shouldn't contribute in some way.


Like you, I tend to be distrustful of government action to force certain behaviors. I honestly would prefer a societal shift where it is just customary for people to involve themselves in service projects for a couple years when they are young, but an actual requirement to do so seems the most likely way to effect that change. As it stands, if I wanted to take some time for doing volunteer service I would have to significantly derail my education because our educational system is not geared to that pattern.


There are a lot of very worthwhile projects that suffer badly from understaffing. I would not object to every high school grad being required to spend the summer working for, say, Habitat for Humanity.


I threw it out as an example. Given some of my personal characteristics, I don't know if I should attempt to teach in any capacity as that would likely be unfair to my students.

My post was relevant to the topic at hand. Don't tell me what to do.

Don't let me enrage you with my super logic, you're gonna get yourself banned yo.

The Amish pay property tax on their farms and dairies. Just like any other set of people on similar types of property.

ruveyn

Habitat is a good idea but all the people at times just get in the way. I have worked on similar projects through work and for us it was impossible to get anything done. I don't handle crowds well and having to interact with so many people was stressful

I'm against any forced work (military or civilian)... I've given a couple years' worth of man-hours over at my church, including a bunch of mission trips sponsored by said church, and I intend to keep doing stuff there... which I wouldn't be able to do if the government decides to ship me off to nevada somewhere to do road maintenance... and thanks to separation of church and state, I don't think that all my work at the church would amount to anything in the eyes of the government...

well, if its forced, morale will be low to nonexistent, if I was forced to do work on a project I was against, then I would put only the minimumal amount of effort not to get in trouble and not a scientilla more. Think of it this way, pick some political idea you are violently opposed to, now imagine the goverment says you have to publicly campign FOR it and if you don't, you go to jail. Would your efforts be the best you can do?

Well let's be honest: who hasn't been on both sides of that situation?

Well, I know that when I was finishing high school, I wanted to go into college right away. I hate school so much, that I just want to get it done ASAP. Having to go into government civil service would have to make me completely overhaul those plans. I've also started taking a martial art so I can get in shape/learn to defend myself. I'd be pretty pissed if the government prevented me from doing that as well. In fact, I bet a lot of people would be mad if the government made them have to turn their lives upside down.
And don't the Amish pay taxes?


Just because you force people to do something, it doesn't mean they will like doing it. The only real, concrete change that could come in this respect is from society itself. Yeah, asking society to change itself a certain way is kind of a long shot, but force will only create resistance and probably achieve the opposite of the goal.