An invitation into a convoluted thought process.

Post Reply New Topic

We must shove diversity down our own throats, our children's throats, and each other's throats because it's not something we take to very naturally.

I disagree. It is part of human nature to rebel against things shoved down our throats.

I think people who want to reduce racism could make more progress if they simply explained what diversity really meant. Diversity is about appreciating the differences between different types of people, not between different races. Extroverts and introverts, male and female, young and old, blonde and brunette, American and European, theist and atheist, intellectual and artist -- they all have something you don't have, and you have something that they don't.

Instead, political interests have defined diversity to mean having a certain "correct" proportion of a certain attribute called "race". In so doing, they diminish diversity to a mere buzzword, and emphasize the importance of the mostly arbitrary categorization of race.

I still recall vividly how shocked I was when I first saw Shaun of the Dead -- it had a black guy with a British accent. Intellectually, I knew that there are black people in Britain, and that British people have British accents, so logically there was no reason for surprise, but it still shocked me. I think of it as a rather funny failure of generalization, not as racist.

There is an innate preference for "one's own kind".

Racism per se is not inherent, but prefering ones 'own' people, over others (whether this is race, religion, neurological type even) is a natural human trait which it is difficult (if not impossible) to get over.

A thought experiment:

I think that racial distinctions are innate in the human populous. With that said, racism will always exist, whether it be an environmental tool established on fear, or a cultural norm of a familial group, or whatever the cause of it is. I don't think it is incorrect to say that in general, racism is innate in human beings. There is a potential inside every single human being to form a racist idea, thought, or behavior. Action does not define all forms and manners in which people are racist. There are many different types of racism and attitudes that constitute support of racism in its different forms. There is no need to label everyone "a racist", or even one's self if it isn't really an outward focus. I find it valuable to self regulate any negative thoughts or opinions that I may form about a race or culture. I have a very racist family, but I find their attitudes and opinions unacceptable. That isn't to say that I've never felt a sense of my upbringing in my own experience with people of other races. I forgo labeling myself "a racist", altogether, even though I inherited a racist family. I choose not to break myself down that way.

Claire, I apologize because I failed to mention that I also grew up around black people. My family knew one guy in particular that would bring his nieces over to play with us. So I was already exposed to colored people early on in my life. Maybe a reason why it didn't take me by surprise in school. As for remembering it back in childhood, I really don't....not that I can go that far back to when I was 3 and before then. It wasn't much of an issue until I was much older.

I'm still confused about this issue. I know that we all have prejudices we're willing not to accept and I think you brought up a good taboo subject but I guess with my problem, I have trouble being articulate. Whenever I come up with a controversial topic, I have to choose my words carefully which is still hard for me. One of the many reasons I steer clear of them unless I have it all thought out carefully and willing to back up my arguements because yes people will argue especially here in the PPR forum.

My only question I guess that's boggling me is what you mean by accepting.

Racism can be expressed in many ways. Some people don't express them overtly like others. I had to accept that from my granny even though she never expressed out loud and didn't hate all black people.

So I guess what I'm trying to get at is the question of acceptance. If my child did what your child did, you're right I wouldn't punish her or get all crazy since it's what she experienced and it might've been natural unless she heard it from someone else in school. I would however, educate her that it's wrong to treat people differently based on the color of their skin just as my mom did.

So therein, lies the irony of acceptance.

No. People are not inherently racist. People are simply taught starting very early in their careers as people that a "human being" is a "certain kind of thing." In fact, it is our responsibility as parents to safeguard against this by trying to expose them to a variety of different kinds of people, so they won't grow up to feel confused whenever they are around black people, indians, Indians, Han Chinese, Kazakhs, Azeri, etc.. It is very cruel to teach our young, "a person looks like this," and then expect that child to take easily to being around people who do not fit that description. If a child was never taught that it is "normal" for some people to be black, then that child is going to always feel that there is something just not quite right about those black people. They were given a certain standard to go by, and it should be no surprise that they think people who don't quite match have something wrong with them. This is not some despicable aspect of human behavior, and it is not fair to judge people for it. The learning process is not a perfect or flawless thing. We should keep ourselves acutely aware of this fact, or we will screw ourselves up.

To succeed in avoiding racist behavior, we must teach ourselves a certain level of cognitive flexibility from early on. We must shove diversity down our own throats, our children's throats, and each other's throats because it's not something we take to very naturally. It is not a normal thing in our evolutionary history to be surrounded by people who look almost like completely different species. It is not natural, organic, or environmentally friendly to try to swallow the fact that two individuals who look no more alike than a wolf and a coyote are really members of exactly the same species and in every possible respect equal to one another. In fact, it's really not fair at all that we are born into a world that is so confusing and apparently inane. The only thing that makes it better is trying to get used to it as early as possible, so we don't feel like we're taking a cold shower every time we hear some strange, weird thing with dark, black skin that makes it look like it's turning into a grape open its mouth and start talking to us in perfect English.

No, racism is NOT inherent. In fact, it's not our fault that life insists on being strange, convoluted, and nonsensical all the time. That's why most of us think it's easier to go through life believing that some super-entity has it all under control and has some hidden purpose for all the madness. I don't hold this belief, but I honestly can't blame people who do. If it helps keep you feeling sane in this great, vast swamp, I won't begrudge you it.

Claire -- I think you are using the word "racist" in a very different way than I would. I wouldn't say that all forms of generalization, stereotyping, or bias are racist.

It is natural to have a bias towards those like you, near you, or related to you. This isn't even bad, as long as you don't take it to the point of hating outsiders. It's also natural to generalize about other people -- trying to consider each individual person from scratch in each and every situation is just way to much computation to be feasible with a human brain. It's not a bad thing, as long as it's reasonable, and the generalizations are flexible enough to change if there is evidence they aren't true.

Actually, one thing that I WILL say of myself is that my attitudes on "race" are a little bit weird.

You see, where I grew up, the "black people" mostly held a lot of the same attitudes and manners of dress. However, there were people in my life who were black of skin without really fitting in that little niche that had the label, "black guy." In fact, now that I am attending college, I haven't seen a single "black guy" even though there are obviously plenty of people in my classes who are technically "black people."

I wouldn't sweat it Claire.

Everyone has certain prejudices that they learn through experience (or lack of it). In my view, this is natural, and not wholly abominable. As long as you have an open mind, accept that you could be wrong in your prejudices...you're good to go.

and generally have a love for all people,

Pandd also made this same arguement. Since it has been mentioned twice, I guess I should address it. I also do not recall being aware of racial differences as a small child.

I recall being unaware that physical variation was of any 'racial' significance, and recall my early muddled and vague early misconceptions, when I first became aware that there was some association between particular physical traits and "race".

I do find many tasks that entail making sense of visual information rather challenging, including facial recognition, and I suspect I was developmentally constrained from developing the kind of racial awareness that tends to follow from the "visibility" of "race".

In retrospect I was atypical in this respect. My peers probably could make "racial inductions" based on physical characteristics for years before I could, and I was once derided by some class-mates for making the mistake of asking another child how they knew someone in a film we had been shown was Chinese. That was the year I turned eight.

I recall being unaware that physical variation was of any 'racial' significance, and recall my early muddled and vague early misconceptions, when I first became aware that there was some association between particular physical traits and "race".

I do find many tasks that entail making sense of visual information rather challenging, including facial recognition, and I suspect I was developmentally constrained from developing the kind of racial awareness that tends to follow from the "visibility" of "race".

In retrospect I was atypical in this respect. My peers probably could make "racial inductions" based on physical characteristics for years before I could, and I was once derided by some class-mates for making the mistake of asking another child how they knew someone in a film we had been shown was Chinese. That was the year I turned eight.