What is your purpose?

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It wasn't so much believing that "this life is all I have" which made life seem "o, p, t, d, in its meaninglessness" but that it simply seemed "meaningless". The difference is belief in god. And no longer believing in free will, ( an important change of view made possible by belief in god ).


No, I'm trying to understand why belief in god "works" for me/has an effect, what it does, etc. And right now I think it has something to do with language.

What makes you say that I seem to be "playing" at belief? I wonder whether it is perhaps because you think that belief necessarily involves losing detachment ( either because the "facts" apparently point indisputably to one "truth", or because belief/faith is blind )? And therefore any belief which someone retains detachment about must be "playing"?


Actually I am trying to be as clear and matter of fact as possible about it. But language is slippery stuff. And belief can be mysterious, because it can, and does, happen for all sorts of reasons, many of which won't/don't fit with other people's idea of what belief should be founded on.


Just wondering; do you do this in the context of belief in god, or in the context of a random universe, because I understand it being "enough" when believing in god, but know that it was never quite enough for me when I didn't.

Or if you don't believe in god, as such, do you have some sense of being a ( valuable/indispensable, because unique ) part of a "purposeful"/extraordinary universe?
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Last edited by ouinon on 10 May 2009, 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am terribly dismayed when somebody claims life is meaningful only because there is a brutal stupid imaginary monster in the sky commanding people what to do. People can be very smart and aware and competent and they can decide how to run this planet without a totalitarian ghost in charge and they can do it well if they decide to. It's time to stop being afraid of a boogeyman and run the world as it should be run if people would only grow up and act like adults. It's a tough job and if it doesn't get done very soon all hell will break loose, much worse than the hell that's around now.

I'd be pretty dismayed too if life seemed meaningless unless I believed in such a creature.

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I was quite deeply into a very nihilistic 'life is meaningless' phase about a year ago (which also coincided with being depressed - the depression, together with a bit of philosophy study caused the nihilism not vice versa). To a certain extent I am still a nihilist in terms of there being no overall meaning of life. I do not believe in free will, so I don't even have the option some people seem to have of believing that at least I have some choice over my destiny.

In fact, my current model of the self, whereby continuity of the self is simply an illusion, and the momentary selves themselves only pattern elements constituted of memories, thoughts and feelings, helps in this nihilism to a certain extent. If 'I' do not really exist in the way that is commonly percieved, then there is no need for a point to my life at all - if all I am is a series of momentary 'I's who link to each other, then there is nothing continuous in my consiousness to even require a purpose.

However I do have three reasons for living rather than dying (slightly different from an overall purpose). Firstly is enjoyment of small aspects of day to day life. If nothing really matters, then worrying about the future is pointless, and momentary physical and emotional sensations can become a reason for living - of course that doesn't mean hedonism - one must think of one's future selves to a certain extent. Second reason is for seeking out new experiences which could be interesting - positive or negative (leads from the First reason) - maybe doing things that you would like to do but don't usually due to inhibitions - as long as these things don't hurt others (and therefore impinge on their First reason). Of course both these reasons are not useful if you find yourself stuck in painful or unpleasant situations (i.e. severe depression, although even here you can maybe later try and use the depression as an experience worth having had for your future selves). The third reason to stay alive is simply to see what happens. Lack fo free will implies determinism, but even with the best computers in the universe it wouldn't be possible to predict every event in the future, which means it will always remain a mystery.

you dont need god for a purpose. my personal goal is to get my fat bracelet made, now. i dont have great longterm vision

compare the submolecular universe to the biggest picture of the expanding universe you can find.




the purpose is simple. we, as an organism, just aren't complicated to get it yet.

don't hate the christians for grasping at the short term "what will happen to me when i die?"

all there is, all there was, and all there ever may be all add up to one thing: momentum.

don't be afraid to move around in the dark.

just because you don't know what's next doesn't mean you shouldn't try to get there.

don't give up the momentum.

FINALITY

To be alive is quite a trial,
To know we walk
That last mile.
But the way is so delightful
Beautiful and insightful
I need not think what's 'round the bend.
I let it be.
I don't pretend.

Well, one should be careful, and take slow, deliberate steps, or one will tumble down the stairs.

"The way is so delightful, beautiful and insightful"!

And in the next breath you say you are not "pretending"? !

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/:

I'm just living day by day with a few preoccupations that keep me busy...like typing into this forum until the day comes...

Last edited by MissConstrue on 11 May 2009, 3:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

I cannot tell a lie,
my fear is to die,
The Pope says "don't be afraid",
but I don't need his aid,
I reject that man's tie,
or my sanity will fade.

To take your points/questions in reverse order

I do this in the context of a random universe without god, & with no sense of being part of a "purposeful" universe. Humans are machines for perceiving & assigning meaning, & for generating purpose - I have no idea why thinking oneself "indispensable" might be necessary or even helpful in this.



Belief should be founded on proof where possible, on good reasons otherwise, or at the very least on an assessment of probability. If there are a range of possibilities & we don't know enough to choose between them, then we shrug our shoulders & say "we don't know enough", & then try to find out more. Belief shouldn't be founded on a gut feeling or the decision that without this belief everything is meaningless.



I say that you seem to be "playing" at belief because if you thought the things you believed in have an actual existence then surely you would refer to them as "reality-based" rather than "language-based"?



You don't seem to think any meaning or purpose is important enough to matter unless you can convince yourself that it has some sort of existence external to yourself? Am I right, or way off?

I am not pretending. I do not define my life by its ending or an illusion of an afterlife. If you find no joy and beauty merely in being alive here, now, today, then in truth you are a very pitiful creature.

Am interested/curious. What purpose, if any, do you see in our "perceiving and assigning meaning"? What, if any, point is there in doing this?


I think that believing something because otherwise everything seems meaningless is a very good reason to believe something, if someone finds meaninglessness too paralysing, depressing, or overwhelming to cope with.


I agree that language is a part of reality, ( which constructs/forms our experience like any other part ), and not just a set of symbols "representing it", but I am interested in how it may be precisely language, rather than some other part of reality, which produces my belief in god.


Way off. Like all belief, whatever its foundations, belief in god is subjective. Correct me if I'm wrong but in fact it seems to be you that think belief is objective, based on external proof, probabilities, etc.

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I have no purpose, i just am..

My dedicated purpose in life is to "wake" people up.
I really don't have to try hard though, it's a talent I have.