Why is there so much liberal hate?

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You have large neo-nazi movements that are blatantly racist, crazy people like Anders Breivik (who many Euros worship as some sort of hero instead of the coward he is), etc. It's clear that there is a large segment of the public that is anything but welcoming. You know, it wasn't that long ago that you were tossing minorities in ovens. Europe has something of a history in this department. It seems to be stirring again.

This may be due to ill-considered immigration policies, granted. Nonetheless, it exacerbates the situation greatly. If the problem is immigration deal with that, but targetting minorities you already have for abuse/marginilization/scapegoating/stereotyping is bound to increase the problem, because you're preventing integration. It doesn't matter if you have a few government programs and handouts. If you've got right wing zealots making them feel like unwanted monstrosities in society, you're going to create huge underclasses that will never integrate.

Europe fails to distinguish between policy approaches to immigration and integration. These are two separate issues.



We're talking about the entire GTA, 6 million people, not just a single neighbourhood.



You're bringing these people in to do the crap jobs that you once did yourselves. And when you did - you had ghettoes full of unemployment and crime that were white. London, for example, at one time was nearly swamped with drunks and thieves, it became a national crisis during the Gin Craze. This had nothing to do with skin colour:

Last edited by edgewaters on 05 Jul 2012, 2:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.

PPR is pretty much open game. If you have an issue with something or see an issue you can always let a mod know. So it seems silly to me that it seems like you are saying mods don't care about personal attacks, if you see one then let them know. They cannot be everywhere.

It's not that they don't care about personal attacks, but that personal attacks and inflammatory BS get overlooked since most of the focus is on bigotry. Anyways, I'm not talking about merely criticizing a belief. That's allowed under PPR's rules. But once it gets personal and inflammatory that's when it's against the rules. I know for a fact mods tend to respond to reports more so than surf through PPR themselves but I'm talking about the focus. Anyways I don't think reporting some of the blatant trolls here will do much since they've overstayed their welcome long long ago. I thought I'd leave the forum completely, but all I needed was a little break. I can live with the fact that people in general are arrogant s**theads, even though I didn't think I could stand it before. So I don't think I'm going to bother reporting people for the most part.

The neo-nazi movement in my country is estimated to number "several dozens". It is suspected that there are more islamic terrorists than active neo-nazis here. And they're the ones threatening tolerance - most right-wing movements in Europe actually support gay rights, and support women's rights. Even the most moderate outspoken muslims would like the state to take a step back in ensuring these rights. Many of them have arranged marriages with illiterate women imported from Morocco and locked up in houses that taxpayers fund for them because they don't have enough income of their own.

Frightening as this may sound, I have some sympathy for Breivik. He's insane, and murdering seventy ethnic Norwegians isn't the solution to there being an increasing percentage of the population not ethnically Norwegian, but I understand his sentiment. He's afraid - and so am I. We're being overrun by poorly-educated people with pre-medieval concepts of sexuality and family honour, and despite a large majority of the population - even the slightly better-integrated Turks - expressing the desire to have a strict immigration policy, we're not allowed to implement one.



It's not a policy of targeting them at all. In fact, they have more rights than us. At one point, a local police department would only accept, for the highest function they could offer, someone not ethnically Dutch. You read that right. The Dutch police is formally racist against ethnic Dutch people. They can build hideous mosques anywhere, while 'aesthetic issues' mean I can't build what I want on land I own. Speaking out against them is illegal, and several politicians have been tried (and one convicted and hounded from parliament, with another assassinated) for doing so. And yes, that breeds hostility - being guests in our own home, but not being treated with the type of respect you'd expect to be treated as a guest. We're too open - each year, we import hundreds of thousands more.

It's not just the government. For the past decades, up until 2007-2008 we weren't allowed to discuss it through social norms. If your bicycle was stolen, you simply said "a man stole my bicycle." Everyone knew it was either an Afro-Caribbean or North African man, but if you said that, you could have found yourself in a sticky situation. In the best case, the person you were talking to would remind you that some white people would also steal bicycles. In the worst case, the person would report you to the police or to some anti-discrimination agency and you'd be prosecuted, fired or formally reprimanded depending on the circumstances.



Not a single neighbourhood - a city.



Wrong. At first, we brought them in for lousy types of employment. They had contracts saying they were expected to leave after a few months or years, taking a comparatively large amount of money with them to the countries they came from, meaning those economies would develop. However, most decided to stay, especially as welfare and rent aid were expanded, and they were allowed to use both. Since then, immigration has increased a lot, and a desire to work isn't one of the most important reasons for them to come here. Actually, the first generation - the one now in their 70s and 80s, brought here to work under poor conditions - is the only generation that generally worked and stayed out of crime. Their over-subsidized offspring, up to the fifth generation now, has gone downhill since then. That's not true for Asians, though - they've actually improved a lot in very little time.

Wow, what the f**k. And you think they're backwards. Nuff said.

It's unfortunate that you take this out of proportion, misrepresent it and try to use it to justify your complete lack of criticism of what I said. We were just discussing personal attacks, and here we go again. I presume you to be liberal, and that fits right in with the theme of this discussion. I don't think 'nuff has been said. I think you need to explain why you said that, and why saying I know what Breivik's sentiment feels like makes me more bigoted than people saying others should be murdered for their opinion, homosexuals should be put to death, and women shouldn't be allowed to walk the streets without a male family member or husband, or apologise right here. After being warned several times merely for expressing my opinion while apologising for it in advance, I think it's time I start calling the mods in on irrelevant insults like this.

I'm not at all surprised.



That's what Hitler said about the Jews.



No, a "city centre" ie the centretown neighbourhood. Not a metropolitan area, not even a whole city, just the central neighbourhood. That's what city centre means.



We get the same people, but we do not experience the same problems, because our integration strategy is different, and therefore functional.

you do know he tried to assasinate obama when he visited norway and made several remarks that lead me to believe he was nothing but a hatefull idealist with the ability and intent to inflict as much harm as possible to anyone opposing his view, also known as a fundementalist. inexcusable behavior and inexcusable thinking made him that person, not criminal, but inexcusable.

i would shun him just as i would shun someone that laughed at someone that was raped.

Lame personal attacks. It's no better than me replying to this and stating that you are damn ret*d.

That is kind of sickening



Fear will control you then. Breivik's fear controls him. He is a coward. If he really wanted to fight the Jihad he would have struck at them instead of killing innocent people

As stated before in this thread, only a very few conservatives are like those protestors/sign carriers. I’d bet some are at least fiscal liberals since I’ve known a few of them to be emphatically anti-gay. So with that said I don’t think hate is strictly the domain of conservatives by a long shot.
Even if it was I can assure you I wouldn’t lose much sleep over it.
That’s about as good of an answer as you’re going to get from a “douchebag” and a “troll”.

There's some honesty.

Godwin's Law enacted. Kindly escort yourself out of the building.



It said 45% of the entire city - a figure usually adjusted up to over 50% a few years later - and over 50% in most of the city. Rotterdam does not have a city centre with too many inhabitants.



I'd question that. A lot of immigrants to the Netherlands are Moroccans, Antilleans, Surinamers and Turks. Those make up tiny groups in Canada. Groups that come to Canada in larger numbers, such as Filipinos and Chinese people, come here in much smaller numbers but succeed almost immediately, whereas the large immigrant groups stick to their own group and often oppose many of our shared values. Chinese people are doing really well in education and medicine, and Filipinos are the hardest workers I've ever encountered. It's not something related to their race, as some who oppose my point of view about culture would have you reduce it do, but it's certainly a cultural difference.

Marshall wrote:

I’ve never known a real conservative (real as opposed to hooligans) to dissuade any "marginalized group" for making their way in the world or criticizing those who have.
It seems to be mostly the liberals that want to keep the "marginalized groups" down. Gotta keep that voter base in tact, ya know, and reinforce the value of happiness through welfare.

As a hate-filled conservative I haven’t noticed this.


Kraichgauer wrote:

If he does get re-elected, and that could very well happen, I won’t lose much sleep over it. If Romney gets it I’m sure the sleep loss and butthurt experienced by you liberals will give me four years of entertainment.

"Godwin's Law" is just an internet meme designed to prevent everything under the sun from being compared to the Nazis.

Pointing out that Europe has a long, long pattern of this sort of problem and what's happening now has a historical context is critical to understanding the situation.

Besides, it doesn't apply when you're talking about an actual rise in Neo-Nazism.

The summer fete was well under way in the normally sleepy village of Luebtheen in the Mecklenburg region of eastern Germany.

Locals tending stalls outside low red brick houses offered home-baked bread and smoke-cured sausage.

They hardly noticed the group of well-groomed young men in orange T-shirts mingling with the crowd and distributing balloons and leaflets.

"The shirts they were wearing were exactly the same colour as those usually worn by Chancellor Angela Merkel's conservatives at campaign rallies," Ute Lindenau, Luebtheen's mayor, told the Independent.

"Nobody had the slightest idea that the men were all neo-Nazis until after they had left and people had time to study their vile propaganda."

The new and almost covert style of canvassing was being practised by Germany's neo-Nazi National Democratic Party (NPD), which is fighting to retain parliamentary seats in key elections in the eastern state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.

The party first won seats there in 2006 after mounting a virulent campaign against foreigners. It also has seats in the east German state of Saxony.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/crime/news/ar ... d=10737319

Many other instances of outright neo-Nazi groups or semi-neo-Nazis trying to hide in plain sight, all across Europe (most obviously in the east). There is clearly a rise. 20 years ago it was utterly unthinkable that there would be neo-Nazi groups participating in elections in Europe, and winning seats. That is the reality today.



Yes, but that is what it said. The "city centre". Not the whole city. Just the city centre. It probably doesn't have too many inhabitants - most of them are probably business travellers in motels, or on temporary work visa with a company there, which accounts for your figure.



Most of those go to one place - Vancouver. It's not representative of immigration in this country as a whole. Although we do get Asians here in central and eastern Canada, we also get many others, large numbers of Lebanese and we had a wave of Somalians during the conflict there (with some integration problems in the case of the latter, but only at first - integration problems never last long here). Many Africans in general, actually, because Quebec runs its own immigration and they look to French speaking areas to boost the French speaking population in Quebec (despite the fact many of them get there and then head directly to Toronto). Much of Africa speaks French, where the former colonies were.

Last edited by edgewaters on 05 Jul 2012, 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I was told by a mod that PPR is challenging to moderate.
Politics, philosophy, and religion, especially politics and religion, are subjects that are pretty much assured to get fights going.
It's not always cut and dry as to what constitutes a personal attack as opposed to attacking a belief.
Treat it like a food fight and just roll with it........