20 Sep 2012, 1:36 pm
20 Sep 2012, 1:45 pm
20 Sep 2012, 2:53 pm
AspieOtaku wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
Sorry JV, but I'm not going to bother taking that test for the simple reason that I don't have to prove anything to you(plus I'm not that interested either).
Nice Strawman, BTW.
Don't tell us your score (it private and sociopaths lie so we won't believe you anyway).
(1)Well if I'm lying about being a sociopath, then clearly you must be lying about being an aspie!
Your ad hominems are certainly very *insightful* and certainly are helping you win this argument.
Nice Strawman, BTW.
JakobVirgil wrote:
Don't tell us your score (it private and sociopaths lie so we won't believe you anyway).
(1)Well if I'm lying about being a sociopath, then clearly you must be lying about being an aspie!
Your ad hominems are certainly very *insightful* and certainly are helping you win this argument.There is a calculus to conversation it is a useful thing to learn.
If you parse what I said it is not a strawman in the classic sense.
I was not saying your argument was because you are a bad person.
I was saying that your data was skewed by your psychology.
It is am sure you will admit anecdotal data and thus prone to such things.
(1) this of course is very telling you offer a definition of aspie as someone that can not have this sort of insight
and then go ahead and make the same sort of claim in the same sentence.
You are lucky you are wrong because than it would make you an "NT" and who would want to be one of those icky folks.
How is my data skewed by me being an aspie? If you're trying to invalidate my argument about human behavior simply for me being an aspie then you failed. You claim that people are basically good by your definition, and you have not provided any evidence to back up this claim. What I have done is point out counterexamples. You attempt to dismiss them as anecdotes but it is not my job to prove your claims false! It is YOUR JOB to prove them true.
I happen to know other people who are not aspies whom I have compared notes with and they have made similar observations.
No it is because you are a sociopath. (please try to keep up)
The null hypothesis is that humans are a mix of good and evil it takes more than people have been mean to you to prove the nefarious nature of man that you are selling.
I will continue to believe in the better nature of man if I have your permission.
You are insisting that most people, as in >50% of the human population, are basically good(as you defined it) and it's going to take much more than just witty remarks and sociological stats to demonstrate that this is actually true and not just what you personally want to believe. Due to my observations of other peoples behavior as well as my own experiences my cynicism of your UNIVERSAL claim is logically sound. My experiences aren't proof of anything, but they serve as counterexamples to your generalizations.
I believe it because it is functional. Assuming folks are generally good has allowed me to have interactions connections with more people. And predict their behavior with greater accuracy than thinking they are rational actors.
I am not a pollyanna I know there are bad folks I just don't come across them very often.
I noticed y'all mentioned that you make friends and then lose them. I have noticed this in my life as well because I tend not to do the reciprocating gestures that help maintain long relationships.
I like the both of you tend to be a bit blunt and abrasive this can be interpreted by folks (NTs and aspies) as being mean or not liking them. So working on myself I started to apologize (I really don't mean it most of the time) but it works wonders.
20 Sep 2012, 3:28 pm
^I do not assume that people are "bad", but I've learned to trust but verify . I've also learned that if you assume that people are generous and rely on them to help you out when you need it the most, you WILL be let down 9 times out of 10. If people treat me well, I treat them well in return. But if they don't, or they stop, then I reciprocate.
The best strategy in life is put yourself in the company of people who are accepting of you and avoid places where you are unwelcome whenever possible. People ARE going to judge you on things you don't control over and this is not something that you have the power to change. But what keeps me going and helps me deal with people is to remember that whenever people reject me or treat me unfairly, it's not because of me; it's because of THEM.
And FYI JakobVirgil, assuming that most people are inherently good(as I've said before ITT) can easily lead to unrealistic expectations of people that leave you bitter when you discover that people don't live up to them. Choosing truth over happiness ultimately makes you much happier in the long run. Cynical people are hardly ever disappointed. 
20 Sep 2012, 3:33 pm
AspieRogue wrote:
^I do not assume that people are "bad", but I've learned to trust but verify . I've also learned that if you assume that people are generous and rely on them to help you out when you need it the most, you WILL be let down 9 times out of 10. If people treat me well, I treat them well in return. But if they don't, or they stop, then I reciprocate.
The best strategy in life is put yourself in the company of people who are accepting of you and avoid places where you are unwelcome whenever possible. People ARE going to judge you on things you don't control over and this is not something that you have the power to change. But what keeps me going and helps me deal with people is to remember that whenever people reject me or treat me unfairly, it's not because of me; it's because of THEM.
And FYI JakobVirgil, assuming that most people are inherently good(as I've said before ITT) can easily lead to unrealistic expectations of people that leave you bitter when you discover that people don't live up to them. Choosing truth over happiness ultimately makes you much happier in the long run. Cynical people are hardly ever disappointed.
The best strategy in life is put yourself in the company of people who are accepting of you and avoid places where you are unwelcome whenever possible. People ARE going to judge you on things you don't control over and this is not something that you have the power to change. But what keeps me going and helps me deal with people is to remember that whenever people reject me or treat me unfairly, it's not because of me; it's because of THEM.
And FYI JakobVirgil, assuming that most people are inherently good(as I've said before ITT) can easily lead to unrealistic expectations of people that leave you bitter when you discover that people don't live up to them. Choosing truth over happiness ultimately makes you much happier in the long run. Cynical people are hardly ever disappointed.
Cynicism is the often the disguise of an Idealist.
20 Sep 2012, 3:46 pm
20 Sep 2012, 3:46 pm
JakobVirgil wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
^I do not assume that people are "bad", but I've learned to trust but verify . I've also learned that if you assume that people are generous and rely on them to help you out when you need it the most, you WILL be let down 9 times out of 10. If people treat me well, I treat them well in return. But if they don't, or they stop, then I reciprocate.
The best strategy in life is put yourself in the company of people who are accepting of you and avoid places where you are unwelcome whenever possible. People ARE going to judge you on things you don't control over and this is not something that you have the power to change. But what keeps me going and helps me deal with people is to remember that whenever people reject me or treat me unfairly, it's not because of me; it's because of THEM.
And FYI JakobVirgil, assuming that most people are inherently good(as I've said before ITT) can easily lead to unrealistic expectations of people that leave you bitter when you discover that people don't live up to them. Choosing truth over happiness ultimately makes you much happier in the long run. Cynical people are hardly ever disappointed.
The best strategy in life is put yourself in the company of people who are accepting of you and avoid places where you are unwelcome whenever possible. People ARE going to judge you on things you don't control over and this is not something that you have the power to change. But what keeps me going and helps me deal with people is to remember that whenever people reject me or treat me unfairly, it's not because of me; it's because of THEM.
And FYI JakobVirgil, assuming that most people are inherently good(as I've said before ITT) can easily lead to unrealistic expectations of people that leave you bitter when you discover that people don't live up to them. Choosing truth over happiness ultimately makes you much happier in the long run. Cynical people are hardly ever disappointed.
Cynicism is the often the disguise of an Idealist.
Well let's put it this way, I've always never been the kind of person who is willing to accept the world(and the people in it)just the way it is. If that makes me a disguised idealist, well, that's okay with me.
However, the presumption that human behavior is driven by impulse and emotive forces rather than rational, deliberate decision making has cleared up much confusion I used to have about why people do the things they do. And furthermore, the assumption of INSTINCTIVE rather than deliberate selfishness has been extremely helpful to me to reduce the incidence of being taken advantage of. People follow the least action principle: They behave in ways that are as convenient for them as possible. If don't believe me, then try leaving one of your valuables(other than a cellphone) in a public place that is crowded and where there's no security over night and see if it's still there.
20 Sep 2012, 4:02 pm
AspieRogue wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
AspieRogue wrote:
^I do not assume that people are "bad", but I've learned to trust but verify . I've also learned that if you assume that people are generous and rely on them to help you out when you need it the most, you WILL be let down 9 times out of 10. If people treat me well, I treat them well in return. But if they don't, or they stop, then I reciprocate.
The best strategy in life is put yourself in the company of people who are accepting of you and avoid places where you are unwelcome whenever possible. People ARE going to judge you on things you don't control over and this is not something that you have the power to change. But what keeps me going and helps me deal with people is to remember that whenever people reject me or treat me unfairly, it's not because of me; it's because of THEM.
And FYI JakobVirgil, assuming that most people are inherently good(as I've said before ITT) can easily lead to unrealistic expectations of people that leave you bitter when you discover that people don't live up to them. Choosing truth over happiness ultimately makes you much happier in the long run. Cynical people are hardly ever disappointed.
The best strategy in life is put yourself in the company of people who are accepting of you and avoid places where you are unwelcome whenever possible. People ARE going to judge you on things you don't control over and this is not something that you have the power to change. But what keeps me going and helps me deal with people is to remember that whenever people reject me or treat me unfairly, it's not because of me; it's because of THEM.
And FYI JakobVirgil, assuming that most people are inherently good(as I've said before ITT) can easily lead to unrealistic expectations of people that leave you bitter when you discover that people don't live up to them. Choosing truth over happiness ultimately makes you much happier in the long run. Cynical people are hardly ever disappointed.
Cynicism is the often the disguise of an Idealist.
Well let's put it this way, I've always never been the kind of person who is willing to accept the world(and the people in it)just the way it is. If that makes me a disguised idealist, well, that's okay with me.
However, the presumption (1)that human behavior is driven by impulse and emotive forces rather than rational, deliberate decision making has cleared up much confusion I used to have about why people do the things they do. And furthermore, (2)the assumption of INSTINCTIVE rather than deliberate selfishness has been extremely helpful to me to reduce the incidence of being taken advantage of. People follow the least action principle: (3)They behave in ways that are as convenient for them as possible. If don't believe me, then try leaving one of your valuables(other than a cellphone) in a public place that is crowded and where there's no security over night and see if it's still there.
These are not arguments they are agreements.
1. Assuming people are rational and do stuff on purpose is not only not effective it is a good way to get ones feelings hurt.
2. This is also a good mechanism like bicyclingguitarist and his those damn people shtick.
It helps a body to not take it personal.
3. I have found (and this is totally anecdotal) I can leave my thumb drive in a community college computer for weeks at a time (I am a bit forgetful and sometimes teach classes there) or in one of the department computers (any department not just mine) but in the general computer labs at the university if I go to the bathroom my stick is gone.
20 Sep 2012, 4:51 pm
20 Sep 2012, 5:18 pm
20 Sep 2012, 8:13 pm
20 Sep 2012, 9:16 pm
20 Sep 2012, 10:52 pm
22 Sep 2012, 4:33 am
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22 Sep 2012, 11:30 pm
