Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Seabass wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
If a state wanted to succeed then why shouldn't they? We encourage self determination overseas, why not at home? If a state cannot freely leave the union then it is slavery.
You know what? You're the person I've noticed I always agree with, out of everybody. High five! It seems we're on a roll right now.
You might have made that argument under the Articles of Confederation, but we now live under the Constitution, which in fact centralizes much more power at the federal level. States can not just leave the Union if they feel like it.
And as for the charge that having to stay against your will in the Union is akin to slavery is outrageous, as the preservation of slavery had been the reason for the last attempt at secession.
Lastly, there are no conditions so bad that are leveled at any state today that would justify seceding from the country. And having lost a presidential election certainly doesn't count.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
But why? Do you think it's right that these states are not allowed to leave? If a clear majority of people of one state wanted to leave the union then how could you morally deny them that right?
Even the Soviet constitution allowed for the republics to leave the unions, which we gleefully supported of course. How can we support self-determination abroad but not at home?
And yes, we're well aware of what happened the last time a group of states tried to secede from the union. 600,000 Americans died. How many of those young do you think were slave owners, how many of them do you think were committed abolitionists? I would imagine not many of them.
Letting states leave would, as already stated by others, be the end of the United States of America. Unlike the old Soviet Union, we're not a collection of countries and tribes that existed prior to the founding of the USSR; rather, we all share a common identity as Americans (even if some don't accept that fact).
And the persons responsible for the deaths of those 60,000 were the secessionists, not the federal government doing it's duty fighting enemies both foreign and domestic.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
The end as a centralized entity that can trample the rights of the states and individuals maybe. We do share a cultural bond just as we do with with Canadians, Brits, or Australians. That does not doom us to forever being bonded together as a single state. The US has only existed for 230 or so years, the Soviet Union existed for about 70. When does this identity become binging? The country wasn't much older than the Soviet Union when the South seceded from the union.
25 Nov 2012, 8:41 pm
