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Kraichgauer
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02 Oct 2013, 4:55 pm

simon_says wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
America has always had universal access to health care. No ER may turn away someone in need of urgent, life-saving care.

We have no easy way to pay for everyone to have health care without making someone else foot the bill.


The ER doesnt do cancer treatment or any other advanced treatment. They treat symptoms while you die. It's also not free. It's some of the most expensive care available and works it's way back to the insurance premiums of people with insurance.


Very, very good point. That's something the right doesn't care to address.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Kraichgauer
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02 Oct 2013, 4:58 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I'm not allowed to feel outraged about people who dehumanize the most vulnerable?


I didn't say you weren't allowed to feel outraged, I've pointed out that you've chosen to dehumanize and demonize people you disagree with, and I've further pointed out why that is such a bad, not to mention, hypocritical, thing to do.

Kraichgauer wrote:
And Dox, have you yourself ever - EVER - been critical of the tea party for their ugly rhetoric?


Probably at some point or another, I don't have a link handy off hand. Not that that matters, this isn't about me, I'm not the one referring to my foes as mindless sub-humans in thrall to some Wall St plot, or too stupid to know what's best for themselves, or simply hateful creature who want to screw over the middle class. That's all you.

Seems about time for my nothing personal reminder, that I'm neither intending nor receiving anything said in these policy deputes as personal attacks, just heated difference of opinion. Thank you.


Hard not to dehumanize others that dehumanize me and others. Let it be known they threw the first punch.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



auntblabby
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02 Oct 2013, 5:14 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
America has always had universal access to health care. No ER may turn away someone in need of urgent, life-saving care.

wrong. EMTALA was passed in 1985 and before that ERs were known to dump the indigent, that is the whole reason the law was passed with support from both parties. but it can and likely will be repealed if the TP win this one. besides, tertiary care costs many times what primary care costs and it disproportionately punishes those who can least afford to pay. it is a needlessly unfair non-system we have [pre-ACA] and is NOT SUSTAINABLE.
zer0netgain wrote:
We have no easy way to pay for everyone to have health care without making someone else foot the bill.

wrong again. make the rich pay their fair share of taxation, there is no good reason why warren buffet should pay a lower tax rate than his secretary [by his own admission]. stop wasting so much on the military-industrial complex. single payer is leagues more efficient a use of public resources than 1,500 different and wasteful insurance companies nationwide. we should not be the world's policeman, and imperial designs are so 20th century. skew the guns versus butter argument back a ways towards butter.



androbot2084
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02 Oct 2013, 5:41 pm

Name me one industrialized country that does not offer universal access to health care.



auntblabby
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02 Oct 2013, 5:44 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Name me one industrialized country that does not offer universal access to health care.

USA rah rah rah, racing all the way to the bottom. :roll:



Kraichgauer
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02 Oct 2013, 5:45 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Name me one industrialized country that does not offer universal access to health care.


The United States of America - unfortunately.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



androbot2084
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02 Oct 2013, 6:30 pm

The problem is that it is not normal to have universal access to health care in the United States.



auntblabby
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02 Oct 2013, 6:32 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
The problem is that it is not normal to have universal access to health care in the United States.

if the united states continues to refuse to invest in its own citizens, America will become as a fallow farm field.



androbot2084
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02 Oct 2013, 6:34 pm

Universal health care will never be accepted until everybody is doing it.



auntblabby
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02 Oct 2013, 6:38 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Universal health care will never be accepted until everybody is doing it.

everybody IS doing it and has been doing it for decades now. everybody 'cept for exceptional imperialist US.



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02 Oct 2013, 6:44 pm

Most people are only concerned with what Americans are doing. the only exception may be the Bible.



LKL
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02 Oct 2013, 11:01 pm

Dox47 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
they are opposed to me signing on to affordable health care for the first time in ages, and you are saying that is NOT hatred? how is that supposed to be loving towards me? how is that NOT making me suffer? after a CENTURY of conservative blockades of extending affordable health care to the working class, you expect me to believe they are not going to forever be opposed to ANY REAL [non-HSA] reform of our current [pre-ACA] non-system? now I KNOW you consider me stupid. fine, be that way. I know for a fact that their "motivations" are callous to real people. shutting down the government is making millions of people suffer. how is that NOT callous? how is that NOT selfish?


It's not about hatred, it's about a differing view of the role of the state and whether or not Obamacare is a good law or not. Just because people think it's a bad law, or even are opposed to universal healthcare generally does not make them hateful, it just means they have a different opinion than you. You don't know their motivations for a fact, you're not them, and it's insulting for you to repeatedly state that you know their inner thoughts and motivations. No one is getting up and saying "you know what, I want to deny people affordable health care", no one thinks like that, it's just a policy difference. Just like you don't know what I think, which isn't, by the way, that you're stupid, I just think you're letting your emotions overrule your humanity on this one, and that's making you lash out in an unpleasant way.

Dox, it's not just about 'different viewpoints,' though. One side of this - the losing side - has shut down the federal government because they're not getting their way. It's the legislative equivalent of a three year old banging her fists on the floor, and a little mockery and disgust (if not dehumanization) is frankly appropriate.



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02 Oct 2013, 11:44 pm

if the rich deny the poor access to health care the rich get to pocket the money.



auntblabby
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02 Oct 2013, 11:47 pm

that is what they've been doing all along.



Kraichgauer
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02 Oct 2013, 11:55 pm

But if we b***h about it, we're accused of class envy.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



auntblabby
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02 Oct 2013, 11:57 pm

that is the stinking hypocrisy about it all, how the repubs can shaft us but if we so much as squeal a bit about it they have the gall to tell us we are inflicting class war upon THEM. they just want us to shut up and be good little disposable sheeple.