Atheism and autism

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Carl_m
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22 Jul 2015, 5:58 pm

What if truth can't be transmitted through words? What if religions are only the fingers pointing to the moon (to borrow Bruce lee's expression)? Wouldn't that make us look pretty stupid arguing about words and dismissing the intend?

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Spiderpig
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22 Jul 2015, 7:00 pm

Actually, I think religions are like different fingers, wearing different ornaments, all pointing to the Moon. With science, you can make telescopes and even spacecraft to see it for real.

I don't know what it means for something to be true if it can't be tested empirically and isn't a tautology.

PS -- I've just realized I'm probably shoving down someone's throat the "belief" that humans have actually been to the Moon. Oh well ...

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Skibz888
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22 Jul 2015, 7:15 pm

Spiderpig wrote:

Actually, I think religions are like different fingers, wearing different ornaments, all pointing to the Moon. With science, you can make telescopes and even spacecraft to see it for real.

But then what of the many ornamental fingers who are operating said telescopes?

Spiderpig
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22 Jul 2015, 8:01 pm

I don't know what you mean.

rvacountrysinger
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22 Jul 2015, 8:07 pm

Spiderpig wrote:

God is very real and he created Science.

Ban-Dodger
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22 Jul 2015, 8:16 pm

...sorry... I just couldn't help myself... :wink: (The thing where I « fix » your post for you ! )

rvacountrysinger wrote:

Aliens are very real and they created God (Aliens also created Science, and in fact, Aliens even created Atheism !).

...this thread, wait, not just this thread, but these forums need more talk & discussions on Quantum-Mechanics.

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kamiyu910
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22 Jul 2015, 9:19 pm

Ban-Dodger wrote:

...sorry... I just couldn't help myself... :wink:

(The thing where I « fix » your post for you !

)

rvacountrysinger wrote:

Aliens are very real and they created God (Aliens also created Science, and in fact, Aliens even created Atheism !).

...this thread, wait, not just this thread, but these forums need more talk & discussions on Quantum-Mechanics.

Heh. I have heard of that one, actually (aliens creating God, etc). Some people argue that God is just an alien, or that ancient aliens (see Stargate or the History channel, lol) gave humans the technology to advance. While it is interesting to ponder the idea of an ancient alien race coming down to earth thousands upon thousands of years ago, I also don't like that that theory basically says ancient humans were stupid. I have seen what people can do, what people did hundreds and thousands of years ago, and it's not fair to them to say aliens did it.

I do think that somewhere out there, there are planets with comparable lifeforms on them, perhaps more advanced than us. As to whether or not they've visited us, I doubt it but anything is possible. Reading about the Anunnaki is certainly interesting at least. Even the really crazy theories I love reading...
(I once wrote a silly theory on how Mars and Venus were colonized by ancient humanoids who got so advanced they started playing with messing with the climate and screwed up and destroyed both planets as far as living on them went and a few hundred people were able to escape in their ships to earth and that's where Adam and Eve came from and the idea that women are from Venus, men are from Mars, lol. When I was little, before understanding science, I used that theory to try to explain how blond people existed)

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Ban-Dodger
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22 Jul 2015, 9:29 pm

This quote now needs a quote involving Albert Einstein...

kamiyu910 wrote:

Ban-Dodger wrote:

...sorry... I just couldn't help myself... :wink:

(The thing where I « fix » your post for you !

)

rvacountrysinger wrote:

Aliens are very real and they created God (Aliens also created Science, and in fact, Aliens even created Atheism !).

...this thread, wait, not just this thread, but these forums need more talk & discussions on Quantum-Mechanics.

While it is interesting to ponder the idea of an ancient alien race coming down to earth thousands upon thousands of years ago, I also don't like that that theory basically says ancient humans were stupid. I have seen what people can do, what people did hundreds and thousands of years ago, and it's not fair to them to say aliens did it.

« “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.” »
Speaking of Men being from Mars & Women being from Venus...

Skibz888
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22 Jul 2015, 10:26 pm

Spiderpig wrote:

Skibz888 wrote:

Spiderpig wrote:

Actually, I think religions are like different fingers, wearing different ornaments, all pointing to the Moon. With science, you can make telescopes and even spacecraft to see it for real.

But then what of the many ornamental fingers who are operating said telescopes?

I don't know what you mean.

Well, you spoke of religion and science as if they were mutually exclusive, when the lines are connected quite heavily.

After all, Galileo (a devout Catholic) made the telescope to see the stars, and most of the men on that first spacecraft were religious or deist (Buzz Aldrin, a Presbyterian elder, took communion on the moon). In this case, the fingers which were initially just pointing at the moon were the ones that created the means to get there.

Pepe
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23 Jul 2015, 1:08 am

pcuser wrote:

Pepe wrote:

pcuser wrote:

It is beginning to look like the more fearful we are, the more religious and the more fundamental our beliefs. This is still being studied, along with other studies. We may have answers sooner than later...

"There are no atheists in fox holes..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are ... n_foxholes

This is nonsense. Even if fear could cause one to hope they're wrong about there being a god, that doesn't mean they are religious. They're in great fear reaching for the proverbial leaf in the wind.

I was actually agreeing with you...
Though the 'foxhole" thing wasn't meant to be taken literally.
Even if I were in a foxhole with hell bursts above me, I would still be an atheist...
Pretty sure about that...

Wolfram87
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23 Jul 2015, 1:15 am

Skibz888 wrote:

After all, Galileo (a devout Catholic) made the telescope to see the stars.

See my earlier post for how well that ended for him, and how it affected his contemporary scientists.

It isn't strange that many scientists of the past have been religious; our understanding of the world was much more limited, and up until rather recently the only ones who had any leisure time to devote to such discoveries were either the rich or the devout.

Sure, there are religious scientists today. But the common denominator between them seems to be that they are scientists first. The discussion earlier about what we "know" or "think we know" missed the point a bit. Science isn't about what we can assert, it's about what we can demonstrate. Think of Newton, a mind as brilliant as it was kooky. The reason his science lived on is because it was demonstrable, while his belief in alchemy and the health benefits of drinking mercury convinced no-one.

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Pepe
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23 Jul 2015, 1:41 am

Fugu wrote:

Pepe wrote:

pcuser wrote:

"There are no atheists in fox holes..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_are ... n_foxholes

That phrase is a comment on foxholes, not on atheism.

You can't see a connection with what PCuser wrote?
That fear may be a catalyst for the belief in an afterlife/creator...

As I have written above, I am not taking this statement literally...
And the last thing I want is to be condemned to someone else's idea of a heaven...

Give me oblivion any day!

If you haven't noticed, I am a hard core atheist... :wink:

I am not taking a definitive position either way...
And I am viewing it simply as a possible psychological curiosity/phenomenon...
I am in speculation mode...

<cranky bunch in this thread...lol>

Pepe
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23 Jul 2015, 1:53 am

pawelk1986 wrote:

WOW i created that tread but not look at it because i have busy job schedule

I did not expect such interest in this thread, but I'm sure there are many theist aspies

Don't get too excited...
More than half of the replies are on a tangent, in true aspie form... :mrgreen:

Pepe
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23 Jul 2015, 2:09 am

rvacountrysinger wrote:

God is very real and he created Science.

Personally speaking I think it more likely that:
God didn't make man (or science)...
Man made god because he needed a sense of meaning...
A psychological quirk created by the evolution process which may have had some survival advantage...
A counterweight for the fear/despair created by self awareness, perhaps...<shrug>

Which brings me back to the speculation about religion and fundamentalism being birthed from fear...
What a mother!... :mrgreen:

nerdygirl
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24 Jul 2015, 7:08 am

Pepe wrote:

rvacountrysinger wrote:

God is very real and he created Science.

It is true that a belief in God brings a sense of meaning.

But, explain to me how atheists can consistently live as if there is no meaning in life.

Grebels
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24 Jul 2015, 7:29 am

I have read that Camus and Sartre both dismayed by the slaughter of The First World War tried to understand the meaningless existance left in Europe. I haven't read either of these writers to understand their viewpoint. I have also read they have led to the Post Modernism of recent years. To me it is a place in history where people may be manipulated, because it leaves a power vacuum. In the UK that was filled by Tony Blair and Bush in the US.

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