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I regret voting for Trump.

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auntblabby
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28 Nov 2016, 4:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
"repeal and replace" is turning out to be just "repeal" with nothing of substance that would actually cover the working class. and any senator of mine or congressman who votes for that, will not get my vote next time, I will be voting socialist.


As more than enough Republican reps are being told by their constituents back home not to touch Obamacare (or at least, not much), I think the situation might not be so dire after all. After all, Republican or Democrat, these are career politicians whose number one concern is to be reelected.

if they touch the subsidies, it is over.



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28 Nov 2016, 4:53 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Democrats should of heeded the warnings from people about unchecked executive power and the rights of the minority in our democracy because they were told then that it would all come back to bite them. I think Trump will have a working majority and will be able to peel off vulnerable Democratic Senate votes many of which are up for reelection in 2018, he might not need to invoke the 'nuclear option' but he certainly has all the leverage to. Obstruction and simply not working with Trump is not an option, at least not a very intelligent one going forward considering the potential looming GOP super majority.

Obamacare was passed by a simple majority thru the budget process of reconciliation so it seems fair that it could be used in it's repeal & replacement. Fair is fair. Lets see how cooperative they are with judges because I would support the 'nuclear option' being applied to the SCOTUS as it has been so reduced under Obama with everything else, this is a unique time for the for the court with the amount of potential openings in the next 4 years to 8 years so it is an opportunity of cementing in justices who believe and uphold the constitution as it is written for the next generation. America really was at threat under Hillary Clinton, she despises the constitution and wishes to erode our most basic freedoms and while there is much work to be done it should be known how close we were to losing this country permanently.

We are much better off now than if we had elected non-functioning divided government and I think the markets have reflected that, those looking for retribution for the way they believe Obama was treated I think are foolish since Obama came in not needing a single Republican vote for anything and the concessions he made were strictly to moderates in their own party. Elections matter, majorities matter, I would not have much tolerance for attention seekers or ideological grand standers when it comes to filibusters and I feel this is all justified given how Obama abused the slim majorities that he had and lost(started with a super majory in both houses)

I am encouraged by some of the things I've heard from the incoming Democratic minority in the Senate(not hard to do considering they were under the leadership of Harry Reid before), Chuck Schumer has signaled that he will work with Trump on things that they agree about and that he wanted to force Trump to decide between his populist rhetoric and the free market principles of his party. I think this is where some of those vulnerable Democrats can really come into to play, infrastructure is something Democrats agree with and it's something that tangible that can be brought back home which there has not been much doing the last few yours with all the gridlock


Obama had to depend solely on Democratic votes in congress because the Republicans had made a concerted effort to block anything he wanted. And no, it wasn't necessarily because they disagreed with Obama, but due to total vindictiveness on their part.


Obama had such big majorities that he did not need to compromise or include Republicans in anything at the beginning of his presidency, I think he might of gotten more done if he never had a supermajority like that since of course the GOP would not cooperate if it is not even included in the process but their opposition really meant nothing the elections in 2010 and even when the GOP won Ted Kennedy's seat they still passed Obamacare thru with reconciliation. I think Democrats would be very foolish to think the voters will reward them obstruction.



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28 Nov 2016, 5:00 pm

I can't vote for somebody that screws me.



Kraichgauer
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28 Nov 2016, 5:05 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Democrats should of heeded the warnings from people about unchecked executive power and the rights of the minority in our democracy because they were told then that it would all come back to bite them. I think Trump will have a working majority and will be able to peel off vulnerable Democratic Senate votes many of which are up for reelection in 2018, he might not need to invoke the 'nuclear option' but he certainly has all the leverage to. Obstruction and simply not working with Trump is not an option, at least not a very intelligent one going forward considering the potential looming GOP super majority.

Obamacare was passed by a simple majority thru the budget process of reconciliation so it seems fair that it could be used in it's repeal & replacement. Fair is fair. Lets see how cooperative they are with judges because I would support the 'nuclear option' being applied to the SCOTUS as it has been so reduced under Obama with everything else, this is a unique time for the for the court with the amount of potential openings in the next 4 years to 8 years so it is an opportunity of cementing in justices who believe and uphold the constitution as it is written for the next generation. America really was at threat under Hillary Clinton, she despises the constitution and wishes to erode our most basic freedoms and while there is much work to be done it should be known how close we were to losing this country permanently.

We are much better off now than if we had elected non-functioning divided government and I think the markets have reflected that, those looking for retribution for the way they believe Obama was treated I think are foolish since Obama came in not needing a single Republican vote for anything and the concessions he made were strictly to moderates in their own party. Elections matter, majorities matter, I would not have much tolerance for attention seekers or ideological grand standers when it comes to filibusters and I feel this is all justified given how Obama abused the slim majorities that he had and lost(started with a super majory in both houses)

I am encouraged by some of the things I've heard from the incoming Democratic minority in the Senate(not hard to do considering they were under the leadership of Harry Reid before), Chuck Schumer has signaled that he will work with Trump on things that they agree about and that he wanted to force Trump to decide between his populist rhetoric and the free market principles of his party. I think this is where some of those vulnerable Democrats can really come into to play, infrastructure is something Democrats agree with and it's something that tangible that can be brought back home which there has not been much doing the last few yours with all the gridlock


Obama had to depend solely on Democratic votes in congress because the Republicans had made a concerted effort to block anything he wanted. And no, it wasn't necessarily because they disagreed with Obama, but due to total vindictiveness on their part.


Obama had such big majorities that he did not need to compromise or include Republicans in anything at the beginning of his presidency, I think he might of gotten more done if he never had a supermajority like that since of course the GOP would not cooperate if it is not even included in the process but their opposition really meant nothing the elections in 2010 and even when the GOP won Ted Kennedy's seat they still passed Obamacare thru with reconciliation. I think Democrats would be very foolish to think the voters will reward them obstruction.


Thing is, though, on the night of Obama's inauguration, the Republican house and senate leadership had met to conspire to slow government to a snail's pace in order to make Obama's Presidency a single term.


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28 Nov 2016, 5:06 pm

auntblabby wrote:
I can't vote for somebody that screws me.


Never have wiser words been written. I completely agree. 8)


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auntblabby
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28 Nov 2016, 5:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
I can't vote for somebody that screws me.


Never have wiser words been written. I completely agree. 8)

thank you :) the democratic party is gonna have to get back to its working class self or else it may cease to be a national party. working class meaning people without college degrees and fancy jobs.



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28 Nov 2016, 6:56 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
I can't vote for somebody that screws me.


Never have wiser words been written. I completely agree. 8)


So he didn't vote for Clinton?


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28 Nov 2016, 7:29 pm

auntblabby wrote:
"repeal and replace" is turning out to be just "repeal" with nothing of substance that would actually cover the working class. and any senator of mine or congressman who votes for that, will not get my vote next time, I will be voting socialist.


Perhaps this will inspire true Americans to figure out clever solutions on their own instead of hoping that big government will come to the rescue. People will save for their retirement instead of relying on big government.

Aspies will have more time to explore and develop their unique talents--with the absence of government programs that try to force them to be "normal"--like it used to be.



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28 Nov 2016, 7:54 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Democrats should of heeded the warnings from people about unchecked executive power and the rights of the minority in our democracy because they were told then that it would all come back to bite them. I think Trump will have a working majority and will be able to peel off vulnerable Democratic Senate votes many of which are up for reelection in 2018, he might not need to invoke the 'nuclear option' but he certainly has all the leverage to. Obstruction and simply not working with Trump is not an option, at least not a very intelligent one going forward considering the potential looming GOP super majority.

Obamacare was passed by a simple majority thru the budget process of reconciliation so it seems fair that it could be used in it's repeal & replacement. Fair is fair. Lets see how cooperative they are with judges because I would support the 'nuclear option' being applied to the SCOTUS as it has been so reduced under Obama with everything else, this is a unique time for the for the court with the amount of potential openings in the next 4 years to 8 years so it is an opportunity of cementing in justices who believe and uphold the constitution as it is written for the next generation. America really was at threat under Hillary Clinton, she despises the constitution and wishes to erode our most basic freedoms and while there is much work to be done it should be known how close we were to losing this country permanently.

We are much better off now than if we had elected non-functioning divided government and I think the markets have reflected that, those looking for retribution for the way they believe Obama was treated I think are foolish since Obama came in not needing a single Republican vote for anything and the concessions he made were strictly to moderates in their own party. Elections matter, majorities matter, I would not have much tolerance for attention seekers or ideological grand standers when it comes to filibusters and I feel this is all justified given how Obama abused the slim majorities that he had and lost(started with a super majory in both houses)

I am encouraged by some of the things I've heard from the incoming Democratic minority in the Senate(not hard to do considering they were under the leadership of Harry Reid before), Chuck Schumer has signaled that he will work with Trump on things that they agree about and that he wanted to force Trump to decide between his populist rhetoric and the free market principles of his party. I think this is where some of those vulnerable Democrats can really come into to play, infrastructure is something Democrats agree with and it's something that tangible that can be brought back home which there has not been much doing the last few yours with all the gridlock


Obama had to depend solely on Democratic votes in congress because the Republicans had made a concerted effort to block anything he wanted. And no, it wasn't necessarily because they disagreed with Obama, but due to total vindictiveness on their part.


Obama had such big majorities that he did not need to compromise or include Republicans in anything at the beginning of his presidency, I think he might of gotten more done if he never had a supermajority like that since of course the GOP would not cooperate if it is not even included in the process but their opposition really meant nothing the elections in 2010 and even when the GOP won Ted Kennedy's seat they still passed Obamacare thru with reconciliation. I think Democrats would be very foolish to think the voters will reward them obstruction.


Thing is, though, on the night of Obama's inauguration, the Republican house and senate leadership had met to conspire to slow government to a snail's pace in order to make Obama's Presidency a single term.

Thank gosh for that ord we'd not have the 2nd amendment. Obama would of regulated it away to nothing if the republicans hadn't stood up and said no!! !!



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28 Nov 2016, 7:56 pm

BTDT wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
"repeal and replace" is turning out to be just "repeal" with nothing of substance that would actually cover the working class. and any senator of mine or congressman who votes for that, will not get my vote next time, I will be voting socialist.


Perhaps this will inspire true Americans to figure out clever solutions on their own instead of hoping that big government will come to the rescue. People will save for their retirement instead of relying on big government.

Aspies will have more time to explore and develop their unique talents--with the absence of government programs that try to force them to be "normal"--like it used to be.

What programs ?
And yeah we'd have so much time while we freeze and starve to death on the streets. Wait no we'll be too busy trying to just survive.



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28 Nov 2016, 8:21 pm

BTDT wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
"repeal and replace" is turning out to be just "repeal" with nothing of substance that would actually cover the working class. and any senator of mine or congressman who votes for that, will not get my vote next time, I will be voting socialist.


Perhaps this will inspire true Americans to figure out clever solutions on their own instead of hoping that big government will come to the rescue. People will save for their retirement instead of relying on big government.
Aspies will have more time to explore and develop their unique talents--with the absence of government programs that try to force them to be "normal"--like it used to be.

we aren't all middle-class like you and not all of us can afford to do more than live paycheck to paycheck. :roll: all americans and not just your kind of middle-class qualify as "true americans." jesus what bourgeois smugness. and not all of us aspies are like you who managed to do the old horatio alger thing and "climb the ladder of success." of course I don't expect you to grok this. middle class people IMHO have a tendency to be insufferably arch, like they have all the answers or that they see themselves as what the rest of us should emulate.



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28 Nov 2016, 8:36 pm

No, its just that I've spent lots of time trying to help others, only to realize that my help wasn't needed or wanted.
I see this election as a vote for less government interference in people's lives.



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28 Nov 2016, 9:12 pm

when one uses language like "true americans" that immediately raises my hackles, it is another way of saying that the poster believes that only others that believe as the poster believes, qualify as "true americans" in the poster's way of thinking. IOW it is VERY offensive. I am sorry if your good efforts were unappreciated, that is always an unhappy thing.



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28 Nov 2016, 9:20 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Raptor wrote:
My idea of civil rights in a nutshell has more to do with self empowerment and having the right to be the captain of one's own destiny without big brother looking over our shoulder. I could make a numbered list but it would be lost on you.
There would be no coddling of any one group, no entitlements to get free stuff at the expense of others, and no right not to have one's feelings hurt, etc...

One area where I would break from conservative party lines would be to promote government intervention in the regulation of healthcare costs of any service over a certain dollar amount. This makes the medical industry atone for thier own greed instead of putting it on the shoulders of the citizen/taxpayer by forcing them to purchase a product (i.e. Obamacare) or raising thier taxes (standard liberal fix-all).


Kraichgauer wrote:
There isn't anything wrong with self empowerment, as long as it isn't done to take power and self-respect away from someone else. That's why there needs to be government intervention at times.

My way and your nanny state way can't co-exist.

Quote:
As for the rest of your Randian manifesto - you'd have a different view of things if you were in a marginalized group, or if you needed a helping hand just to live.

You must be talking about my health care reform idea here although you're not specific. No surprise to me that you'd prefer to allow the fat cats to keep getting fat while John Q. Citizen foots the bill for it. Hey, as long as you and yours have your Obamacare who cares about anyone else... :roll:

Quote:
I think Sly gave you an excellent answer.

Sly has already smoked you out as an anti-gunner so I doubt you'll be back in his good graces anytime soon.


As a matter of fact, Sly and I have had pleasant conversations via PM. I don't consider him rude or an adversary of any kind.

Maybe not yet but you tend to get on people's bad side. I've gotten several unsolicited PM's in the past year or so from various people about you that weren't very flattering.

Quote:
Yeah, right, I only care about myself, and don't care that fat cats get rich taking advantage of others.
In fact, that sounds more like your unregulated world of self empowered individuals straight out of a bad novel by Ayn Rand.

Rand again :roll:
Has it ever occurred to you that I might get just about all of my values from myself and my own observations?
And you never did directly reply to my plan for affordable healthcare.


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28 Nov 2016, 9:36 pm

sly279 wrote:
That's where we disagree. I support ssi, ssi , food stamps and other such aid. I'd be freezing in the street or in a gang if not for it. Mean I have guns and want to live so mugging I guess :(


Raptor wrote:
The no-welfare thing is more pipe dream than anything. At this point we cannot simply do away with welfare programs. My plan if I had my way would keep welfare while at the same time pushing job training and placement programs at the same time. Also and equally important would be to create an environment friendly toward business establishment and growth. Yes, that means tax incentives and relaxed regulation. Even if that all worked splendidly we'd still need welfare programs but not nearly as much. It won't get any better than that from me and there's' plenty of room for it to be much more austere.


sly279 wrote:
People on ssi lie myself simply can't work it's why we're on it. No amount of job training will help us. I can't handle over 20hrs a week :(

Did you not see the underlined part about how we'd still have welfare programs, then a reiteration of it near the end?
Was it really necessary for me to specify we'll need welfare programs for Sly279? Do I have to write out the whole details of the plan?

sly279 wrote:
How would you pay for anything with giving business more tax relief. Most already don't pay taxes. And decrease regulation so they can go back to treating their employees as disposable cogs work them long hard hours til they get hurt and fire them and get a replacement ? No thanks we should keep regulations for safety, work habitat and hours along with treatment of employees.

Straw man much?
Where did I say they'd pay no taxes and operate unregulated?
If you don't make it inviting for businesses then there won't be any and they will go elsewhere.

Really, if you're looking for an adversary I can be that guy and I'm very good at it. :jester:


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28 Nov 2016, 9:48 pm

BTDT wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
"repeal and replace" is turning out to be just "repeal" with nothing of substance that would actually cover the working class. and any senator of mine or congressman who votes for that, will not get my vote next time, I will be voting socialist.


Perhaps this will inspire true Americans to figure out clever solutions on their own instead of hoping that big government will come to the rescue. People will save for their retirement instead of relying on big government.

Aspies will have more time to explore and develop their unique talents--with the absence of government programs that try to force them to be "normal"--like it used to be.


I won't mention names, lest I be accused of trolling, but you'll find some people who have proven they can hold a full time job but for whatever reason have given up. They no longer even try to improve their own lot in the traditional way (e.g. work) and look solely to big government for all forms of wellbeing.


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