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Why do Americans love guns so much?

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Raptor
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18 Mar 2017, 1:54 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
To some fetishists, any faint praise reads as damnation.

I guess this is easier than coming up with an actual reply...
:roll:


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jrjones9933
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18 Mar 2017, 2:18 pm

Raptor wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
To some fetishists, any faint praise reads as damnation.

I guess this is easier than coming up with an actual reply...
:roll:

We already agreed that neither of us cares about the opinion which the other holds of us, so you just opened up a pointless line of debate. Stick to the issues, leave out the personal attacks against me, and we can talk.


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18 Mar 2017, 7:59 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
We already agreed that neither of us cares about the opinion which the other holds of us, so you just opened up a pointless line of debate. Stick to the issues, leave out the personal attacks against me, and we can talk.


He wrote you an in-depth response, and you responded by calling him a fetishist... I don't think you get to take the moral high ground here.


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Dox47
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18 Mar 2017, 8:13 pm

So many of these objections seem to be "well a gun wouldn't help you in situation X, so it's basically useless", which is so obviously fallacious that I can't understand it's popularity as an argument. Sure, the gun in my pocket isn't going to do me a lot of good if the local international contract killer decides to pick me off with a rifle or ambush me with no provocation, but that's not how violent crime tends to happen, and in this real world type of violent encounter, the gun is very useful indeed. If nothing else, carrying a gun is like having a personal assistant that constantly reminds you to look around, pay attention, and be cautious, and that translates into body language different than that of the types of people criminals prefer to victimize, so I'm already safer without ever having to take the thing out of my pocket.

Since I work in a kitchen, my day to day is a very small .380 auto that is about twice as thick as my phone but maybe 2/3 the footprint, which I carry in the pocket most right handed people carry a wallet in, in a holster designed to look like a wallet; I think you can see where I'm going with this regarding someone demanding that I hand over my wallet... Doesn't really matter if they have a gun themselves, action beats reaction every time, and since I'm pulling something that looks like a wallet out of the pocket where they'd expect a wallet to be, there's nothing to alarm them until it's too late. When I'm not working, I add a .45 auto in a belt holster to the mix, which isn't quite as sneaky as my pocket gun, but comes out much faster and throws a much bigger bullet with much greater accuracy.

I do wish more people would try carrying before second guessing those of us who choose to, it's very different than what most people think, and a very sobering experience besides.


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18 Mar 2017, 8:20 pm

Dox47 wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
We already agreed that neither of us cares about the opinion which the other holds of us, so you just opened up a pointless line of debate. Stick to the issues, leave out the personal attacks against me, and we can talk.


He wrote you an in-depth response, and you responded by calling him a fetishist... I don't think you get to take the moral high ground here.


That type of vague reply seems to be his most defining characteristic...


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Dox47
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18 Mar 2017, 8:58 pm

Raptor wrote:
That type of vague reply seems to be his most defining characteristic...


I would have said the paranoia; he keeps posting in the admin section about how this place is overrun with Russian agents and thinks half the people on here are working sinister hidden agendas.


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jrjones9933
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18 Mar 2017, 9:06 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
That type of vague reply seems to be his most defining characteristic...


I would have said the paranoia; he keeps posting in the admin section about how this place is overrun with Russian agents and thinks half the people on here are working sinister hidden agendas.

Way too easy. Any careful reader can discern exactly what I meant in that thread. Interestingly, the level of hostility toward me escalated sharply right after I made that thread. Hmmm...

ETA: Here's a link for reference viewtopic.php?t=336569

To me, the oddest pathology here is yours. In our last exchange about ideas, you got me to reconsider my view. Regrettably, you acted so sh***y about it that it turned me off on getting back to you with the improved version of my idea which incorporated some of your thoughts.

But then you got all cold, and all your posts just attack my personal style from the perspective of your whole delusional crew. Was it that uncomfortable to have a real discussion about ideas?


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Last edited by jrjones9933 on 18 Mar 2017, 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Raptor
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18 Mar 2017, 9:11 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
To some fetishists, any faint praise reads as damnation.

I guess this is easier than coming up with an actual reply...
:roll:

We already agreed that neither of us cares about the opinion which the other holds of us, so you just opened up a pointless line of debate.

Being a political discussion forum, there will be a lot of pointless debate and i see most of it coming from your side of the aisle.

Quote:
Stick to the issues, leave out the personal attacks against me, and we can talk.

1. There is no "issue" unless you actually believe that an inanimate object is responsible for any act or that it takes control of people's minds.

2. Personal attack where?
Oh, my bad, you mean disagreeing with you is a personal attack.


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jrjones9933
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18 Mar 2017, 9:16 pm

I did say that it takes a high level of accuracy to be a good hunter. If a lung shot is okay with you, then that's you.

I don't have magical thinking about guns. I notice enough of my mistakes to expect that I have to exercise a lot of caution to beat the odds. Also, all my guns are functional and for killing food, although one is rather cute.

I like to introduce people to guns. It gives me a chance to teach them gun safety, by the book. I love the look on their faces when they shoot a milk jug and I explain that's what happens to any liquid filled bag. They're cool, but the only problem they solve is a lack of meat.


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18 Mar 2017, 9:34 pm

^ I know safety by the book as well since I'm a volunteer Range Safety Officer.


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18 Mar 2017, 9:39 pm

Dox47 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
That type of vague reply seems to be his most defining characteristic...


I would have said the paranoia; he keeps posting in the admin section about how this place is overrun with Russian agents and thinks half the people on here are working sinister hidden agendas.


GRU Agent Vladimir Raptorsky here.


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Dox47
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19 Mar 2017, 2:28 am

jrjones9933 wrote:
Way too easy. Any careful reader can discern exactly what I meant in that thread. Interestingly, the level of hostility toward me escalated sharply right after I made that thread. Hmmm...

ETA: Here's a link for reference viewtopic.php?t=336569

To me, the oddest pathology here is yours. In our last exchange about ideas, you got me to reconsider my view. Regrettably, you acted so sh***y about it that it turned me off on getting back to you with the improved version of my idea which incorporated some of your thoughts.

But then you got all cold, and all your posts just attack my personal style from the perspective of your whole delusional crew. Was it that uncomfortable to have a real discussion about ideas?


So, you're surprised that when you accuse your fellow posters of being foreign agents posting for nefarious reason, they get hostile? Maybe you should examine your posting style in light of the responses you seem to get, not only are many of your posts dickish, you're often complaining about other dickish posts in the same breath you make one in, which isn't a good way to engender a positive reputation and draw friendly responses.

Also, it's news to me that I have a "crew".


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19 Mar 2017, 6:11 am

NotThatClever13 wrote:
I have found it comes down to a simple human defect we all end up falling victim to. That is, when we want or desire something, we make every excuse we can to justify it. Even try to make it sound logical. But in the end we are just trying to justify a position we agree with, not trying to determine objectively if a gun is really necessary. In reality, if I was living in a place so dangerous I didn't feel safe without a gun, I would just move. Why would I want to live in an area like that?

I actually worry more for my safety when around some people carrying guns. I'm not talking about the ones who I know are responsible and have been properly trained to use and discern when the best time to use a weapon would be. I'm talking about the masses of people in the US who own guns but have never taken a class to learn to use them properly and seem perpetually on edge and excited for an opportunity to come up in which to use it. Those people are dangerous and can escalate a situation from just a robbery to a shoot out. Even if you are trained to operate a weapon it is knowing when and when not to use it that is also important.
Hey, don't say that. You might upset the special snowflake conservatives!

And don't you know the second amendment only applies to the people who have taken the proper training? It's not like it applies to everyone /sarcasm


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19 Mar 2017, 8:02 am

I hope this gun threads evolve to where there is a discussion on whether we should be able arm our drones.



jrjones9933
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19 Mar 2017, 8:16 am

Dox47 wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
Way too easy. Any careful reader can discern exactly what I meant in that thread. Interestingly, the level of hostility toward me escalated sharply right after I made that thread. Hmmm...

ETA: Here's a link for reference viewtopic.php?t=336569

To me, the oddest pathology here is yours. In our last exchange about ideas, you got me to reconsider my view. Regrettably, you acted so sh***y about it that it turned me off on getting back to you with the improved version of my idea which incorporated some of your thoughts.

But then you got all cold, and all your posts just attack my personal style from the perspective of your whole delusional crew. Was it that uncomfortable to have a real discussion about ideas?


So, you're surprised that when you accuse your fellow posters of being foreign agents posting for nefarious reason, they get hostile? Maybe you should examine your posting style in light of the responses you seem to get, not only are many of your posts dickish, you're often complaining about other dickish posts in the same breath you make one in, which isn't a good way to engender a positive reputation and draw friendly responses.

Also, it's news to me that I have a "crew".

It's so amusing when people act like they have my best interests at heart in the middle of a barrage of irrational hostility. The crew would be the people you keep seeing next to you when you all pile on, in every case. I also find it amusing that you expect to deny the existence of what anyone can see.

Back to guns. One thing rational gun owners can do to improve the situation under current law is buy the most technologically advanced pistols available. The safety features make it possible to store them loaded and ready to go in a convenient location, knowing that if a kid got his hands on it, it would be no more dangerous than a brick.

Actually, LNH, while armed drones are banned, I can see a plausible case under the ADA for a paraplegic hunter. People have already made hunting waldoes which don't fall under FAA supervision, though, so I doubt flying is a strictly necessary adaptation.


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19 Mar 2017, 11:00 am

Raptor wrote:
ZenDen wrote:
snip snippy snip

Quote:
The day anyone tries to ban guns in America is the day you'll really have something to cry about, that will turn bloody


REALLY? :D

Do you have a plan? Do you know of someone who has a plan? Will this be a sneak media attack?

The fact is most (I was going to say all but stopped myself) of the gun owners I know would not think of bloody (your word) rebellion or revolution. If it was the Left that imposed the restrictions (who else?) then Trump types would be screaming all types of dire threats (you're not one of them are you?) that would mean nothing.

The fact is, if there is no organized revolution then your choice is to bushwhack innocent people...pretty ugly and certainly not going to help retain gun ownership rights. And I know you're not part of this group. The reality is that choices are few.

Actually I think the gun owners will do the same thing I did in Chicago during the riots after Martin Luther King's assassination. At the time it was illegal for any civilian to carry in Chicago...it just wasn't allowed. My job required me to work frequently in riot prone areas, so I (and everyone in the same situation who I was familiar with) just stuck a gun in my pocket and kept my mouth shut. I don't think anyone was arrested for this during the period after the riots.


Let's say w're talking about a nation-wide gun ban. Won't happen but I think that's what was implied by Mr_Miner.
Has the war on drugs been bloodless? There are more gun owners than dopers so I think we can safely multiply whatever blood has been spilled on account of the war on drugs a few times at least.

I have no intention of living on constant fear of the cops swooping down on me over my guns which will not be surrendered. I have that "I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees" mindset and I probably have a lot of company.
A hard line will have to be drawn somwhere...


This
"The day anyone tries to ban guns in America is the day you'll really have something to cry about, that will turn bloody"
sounds like you're suggesting, through the word "tries", that there will be a resistance to an attempt to banning guns which may even lead to death ("die on my feet"...)..NO?

As I said, this path leads only to killing innocent people. This is because you only espouse individual action...so bushwhacking is what we call it. There is no legitimate resistance to cause bloody resistance, only whiners.