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greenblue
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30 Aug 2008, 10:33 am

slowmutant wrote:
In the same place it leaves atheists, I guess.

Yes, nowhere.


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iamnotaparakeet
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30 Aug 2008, 10:34 am

Sand wrote:
To be considerate about this whole business it seems that part of the Bible is acceptable to some people and other parts acceptable to others. Since there are all sorts of poetic, literate, and illiterate sections to the book it seems one can pick and choose all sorts of stuff to claim Biblical confirmation and come up with many different concepts as to what to believe and what to discard. That way, it seems, Christians and Jews can justify almost anything. So where does that leave you?


So, how can this be interpreted?

Jewish Publication Society wrote:
Isaiah 53:1-12
[1] 'Who would have believed our report? And to whom hath the arm of the LORD been revealed?
[2] For he shot up right forth as a sapling, and as a root out of a dry ground; he had no form nor comeliness, that we should look upon him, nor beauty that we should delight in him.
[3] He was despised, and forsaken of men, a man of pains, and acquainted with disease, and as one from whom men hide their face: he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
[4] Surely our diseases he did bear, and our pains he carried; whereas we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
[5] But he was wounded because of our transgressions, he was crushed because of our iniquities: the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his stripes we were healed.
[6] All we like sheep did go astray, we turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath made to light on him the iniquity of us all.
[7] He was oppressed, though he humbled himself and opened not his mouth; as a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and as a sheep that before her shearers is dumb; yea, he opened not his mouth.
[8] By oppression and judgment he was taken away, and with his generation who did reason? for he was cut off out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due.
[9] And they made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich his tomb; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.'
[10] Yet it pleased the LORD to crush him by disease; to see if his soul would offer itself in restitution, that he might see his seed, prolong his days, and that the purpose of the LORD might prosper by his hand:
[11] Of the travail of his soul he shall see to the full, even My servant, who by his knowledge did justify the Righteous One to the many, and their iniquities he did bear.
[12] Therefore will I divide him a portion among the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the mighty; because he bared his soul unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.



slowmutant
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30 Aug 2008, 10:38 am

Sand wrote:
It doesn't seem so. Christians and Jews seem quite fond of the Bible.


This is true.



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30 Aug 2008, 10:40 am

Sounds like the guy had tough luck and blamed it on God.



slowmutant
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30 Aug 2008, 10:41 am

As a Christian I cannot justify "almost anything."

My morality and good conscience would impede that.

Are you talking about Christians in general or myself as a Christian?



Ishmael
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30 Aug 2008, 10:45 am

Whats this "creationism explains the why" business?
How is it, then, that creationists desire to know the "meaning of life"?
No offense; but by my views, desiring something to have control over you existence seems weak and self-destructive.
What's so great about having your reality dictated by another? How is that appealing?
There is no meaning to life, no cause or purpose. There is a "destination", of sorts, to life that can be expressed mathematically, but to try to use that argument as cause is a reversal.


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Sand
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30 Aug 2008, 10:45 am

I am just wondering honestly how anyone is to claim to be a Christian and deny others who also claim to be Christian to be true believers. If anyone can pick and choose the nature of Christianity, and the Bible evidently permits this since it has so many inconsistencies, where does that leave you? Atheists can disagree about their concepts since they have no basic literature to give them problems.



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30 Aug 2008, 10:49 am

Sand wrote:
Sounds like the guy had tough luck and blamed it on God.


God gets blamed for everything. :roll:



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30 Aug 2008, 10:53 am

Sand wrote:
I am just wondering honestly how anyone is to claim to be a Christian and deny others who also claim to be Christian to be true believers. If anyone can pick and choose the nature of Christianity, and the Bible evidently permits this since it has so many inconsistencies, where does that leave you? Atheists can disagree about their concepts since they have no basic literature to give them problems.


If a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Saviour, then they're a Christian.

I don't see the Bible as having "inconsistencies" as much as I see people who don't bother to read very carefully or just don't care at all. But, that doesn't matter so much. I myself care about internal consistency of my views, and that is why I have the ones I do.



iamnotaparakeet
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30 Aug 2008, 10:54 am

slowmutant wrote:
Sand wrote:
Sounds like the guy had tough luck and blamed it on God.


God gets blamed for everything. :roll:


Sand is referring to Isaiah 53 I think.



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30 Aug 2008, 10:54 am

Well, if'n ya got the powa, ya gets the responsibility.



iamnotaparakeet
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30 Aug 2008, 10:56 am

Sand wrote:
Well, if'n ya got the powa, ya gets the responsibility.


Que dices?



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30 Aug 2008, 11:01 am

But, slowmutant, I have repeatedly read that you consider all thos guys who tortured people and hanged and burned "witches" and who undoubtedly claimed to accept Christ as their savior as not being Christians. Frankly, I'm puzzled.

All those strange things in Genesis are clearly inconsistent. Creating light before the Sun, where did Adam's boys get their wives?, how come the entire Earth was flooded in Noah's time and where did the water go? etc. These things don't make sense.



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30 Aug 2008, 11:03 am

I'm sure you are earnestly trying to communicate, but I don't speak Latin and you probably would not be happy if I tried to reply in my crappy Finnish.



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30 Aug 2008, 11:14 am

Sand wrote:
But, slowmutant, I have repeatedly read that you consider all thos guys who tortured people and hanged and burned "witches" and who undoubtedly claimed to accept Christ as their savior as not being Christians. Frankly, I'm puzzled.
Quote:

Once a religion gets some steam behind it, becomes politcal. And sometimes politcal concerns will masquerade as religious concerns. I have very little doubt that the Inquisition and the Crusades were purely politcal in motivation, but dressed up as religion.

All those strange things in Genesis are clearly inconsistent. Creating light before the Sun, where did Adam's boys get their wives?, how come the entire Earth was flooded in Noah's time and where did the water go? etc. These things don't make sense.


Maybe when God said, "Let there be light," the light He brough forth was the Big Bang itself, the primordial explosion. It amuses me to think of it as the Word speaking Itself into existence.

I've noticed these other seeming inconsistencies, as well. Maybe if the Bible was heard by, recorded by just one person at one time & place instead of being a work in progress for so long ... involving so many nations and languages and politcal situations ... I dunno.

I'd have to agree with you. Where did Cain & Abel get their wives if they were the first humans ever?

Water can evaporate, right? I dunno.

I don't know.
I don't know.



greenblue
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30 Aug 2008, 11:19 am

Sand wrote:
where did Adam's boys get their wives?

That's easy to answer, Incest.


slowmutant wrote:
Where did Cain & Abel get their wives if they were the first humans ever?

If I'm not mistaken, Abel never got married, he didn't have the time for it :P


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Last edited by greenblue on 30 Aug 2008, 11:24 am, edited 2 times in total.