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Sand
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21 Apr 2009, 10:59 am

richardbenson wrote:
tricked them using alcohol. and yes i know the indians were brutally massacerd&scatterd. i went to school :roll:


Surprise attacked peaceful Indian settlements with guns and cannon and murdered men, women, and children wholesale without mercy.



vibratetogether
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21 Apr 2009, 11:34 am

Saitorosan wrote:
richardbenson wrote:
the government wouldnt be able to regulate it, so many people would be intrested, most would probably take to much crank and die the first time they did it, or kill something else or seriously harm a small cat.
Dude you just invented a new logical fallacy, ad fluffikins


:lmao: :hail: :lmao: :bounce: :lmao: :compress: :lmao:



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21 Apr 2009, 11:44 am

Let's not forget the smallpox-infested blankets and the massive genocide. There was more to the equation than just alcohol.

However, RB brings up an interesting point regarding familiarization and how that can affect consumption habits. There is at least a hint of truth to the idea that alcohol, being foreign to the Native Americans, was more destructive than it would have been if they were used to it.

There is something to be said for the attitude we hold towards mind-altering substances. You can see the attitude in our culture towards marijuana changing as we speak, and it's been on the move for decades. I'm hoping we reach a place where all mind-altering substances are viewed with the attitude that yes, they exist, and yes, they may even have benefits (whether medical, psychological, psychic or otherwise). We needn't fear the organic drugs that occur naturally (or with little artificial production). The only drugs we should really fear are Meth and Crack, even Heroin can be used in a recreational manner (by some at least).



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21 Apr 2009, 12:13 pm

wich one am i the baby seal or the cracker? :jester:
and i think the point was thorually made as to why total drug legalazation wouldnt work in modern sociaty thank you.
i'll still use them occasionally for recreation, i can hardley smoke pot these days because of awful paranioa, though and its really a shame. i like weed :(



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21 Apr 2009, 12:16 pm

RB, you did not make a coherent argument against legalization. Perhaps we didn't do the best job we could to state our case, but your argument consisted mostly of your own stubborn opinions combined with emotional rhetoric.

Anyways, to lighten the mood here a little, this if HILARIOUS.

CLICK ME!



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21 Apr 2009, 12:20 pm

vibratetogether wrote:
RB, you did not make a coherent argument against legalization. Perhaps we didn't do the best job we could to state our case, but your argument consisted mostly of your own stubborn opinions combined with emotional rhetoric.
well most aspies are stubborn, or havent you learned that yet? black and white issues seem to be our downfall. there is no grey area, and im so emotional about it because cocaine destroyed my father



Sand
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21 Apr 2009, 1:05 pm

richardbenson wrote:
vibratetogether wrote:
RB, you did not make a coherent argument against legalization. Perhaps we didn't do the best job we could to state our case, but your argument consisted mostly of your own stubborn opinions combined with emotional rhetoric.
well most aspies are stubborn, or havent you learned that yet? black and white issues seem to be our downfall. there is no grey area, and im so emotional about it because cocaine destroyed my father


That's really terrible. I am sorry and I understand to a small degree your passion but the drug enforcement agencies are also destroying hundreds of thousands of people and it's a tough problem to decide which is worse.



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21 Apr 2009, 2:40 pm

well thanks for that. im past caring about him since i've recently disowned him but still, even though i dont want anything to do with him i wouldnt wish a drug dependence on my worst enemies



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21 Apr 2009, 3:19 pm

Sand wrote:
richardbenson wrote:
not really, but as i've already said just because something doesnt work doesnt mean you should make smoking crack legal. in a perfect world you could go on down to everything legal distributed by the government to sit down to ingest your clean dope. in a perfect world you could leave, go home and not feen for more to look for it, constintley. quitting your job, leaving your family for it. and god knows what else people will do. behave irrationally and on a whim, especially when an addction is involved, have you guys ever watched that show called intervention? on A&E? imagine that everywhere going on at once


Before opium became illegal back in the 1800s many people used it legally and otherwise lived perfectly normal lives. It's the deprivation and the problems of paying exorbitant prices for something your body demands that causes the problems.


Opium was almost everywhere legal till the early 1900s. "Laudanum", basically opium solved in alcohol, was in 19th century a widely used remedy for pain and a sleeping agent.



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21 Apr 2009, 4:36 pm

...



Last edited by claire-333 on 21 Apr 2009, 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

richardbenson
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21 Apr 2009, 4:41 pm

oh stop it. none of those were racist comments, and besides. i thought you were going to stop talking to me to get the topic back on track



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21 Apr 2009, 6:09 pm

Dussel wrote:
Sand wrote:
richardbenson wrote:
not really, but as i've already said just because something doesnt work doesnt mean you should make smoking crack legal. in a perfect world you could go on down to everything legal distributed by the government to sit down to ingest your clean dope. in a perfect world you could leave, go home and not feen for more to look for it, constintley. quitting your job, leaving your family for it. and god knows what else people will do. behave irrationally and on a whim, especially when an addction is involved, have you guys ever watched that show called intervention? on A&E? imagine that everywhere going on at once


Before opium became illegal back in the 1800s many people used it legally and otherwise lived perfectly normal lives. It's the deprivation and the problems of paying exorbitant prices for something your body demands that causes the problems.


Opium was almost everywhere legal till the early 1900s. "Laudanum", basically opium solved in alcohol, was in 19th century a widely used remedy for pain and a sleeping agent.

and the reason it was made illegal was not due to the economy or political back deals but because of its toll. Opium was commonly the main ingredient in snake oil treatments and the reason those stopped being sold was because the law said you have to label what is in something. Heroin come into being as a cure for opium addiction and was in fact 100x more addictive. My point I am raising is the law of unintended consquences, you legalize drugs, the criminals will find something else to make money off of. Who knows, by legalizing herion, the heroin supplies move onto, say, piracy, to make money. Note I am only using piracy as an example.


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Dussel
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21 Apr 2009, 10:28 pm

cognito wrote:
And the reason it was made illegal was not due to the economy or political back deals but because of its toll.


You may look up the background of the "Harrison Narcotics Tax Act" first ...

cognito wrote:
Heroin come into being as a cure for opium addiction and was in fact 100x more addictive.


This utterly nonsense: Heroin was developed by Bayer as painkiller and was in its original preparation not addictive (10 - 30 mg oral). Heroin was seen as an alternative to Aspirin, because it has in this way of administration less side effects and is much more effective than acetylsalicylic acid. Heroin gets only addictive, if you alter the way of administration, especially if you take higher amounts, or/and smoke/inject the substance.



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21 Apr 2009, 11:16 pm

Quote:
This utterly nonsense: Heroin was developed by Bayer as painkiller and was in its original preparation not addictive (10 - 30 mg oral). Heroin was seen as an alternative to Aspirin, because it has in this way of administration less side effects and is much more effective than acetylsalicylic acid. Heroin gets only addictive, if you alter the way of administration, especially if you take higher amounts, or/and smoke/inject the substance.

I beg to differ

#1

#2

Also, opium was banned in the US due to racism, because it was feared whites were visiting Chinese opium dens

War on drugs

in summary, as I just pointed out, you do in fact, talk from your ass.


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Dussel
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22 Apr 2009, 12:04 am

cognito wrote:
Quote:
This utterly nonsense: Heroin was developed by Bayer as painkiller and was in its original preparation not addictive (10 - 30 mg oral). Heroin was seen as an alternative to Aspirin, because it has in this way of administration less side effects and is much more effective than acetylsalicylic acid. Heroin gets only addictive, if you alter the way of administration, especially if you take higher amounts, or/and smoke/inject the substance.

I beg to differ


You obviously don't understand to which extent the way of administration of a drug does promote or hinder the development of an addiction. If you use heroin as original intended (oral, 10 to 30 mg) heroin is a very save and effective painkiller; if you take larger amounts or even inject the drug directly into the veins, than an addiction is quite likely to develop.

This mechanisms of developing addictions are well understood today and therefore the development of morphine addiction is today with the medical use very rare, some decades ago it was common.



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22 Apr 2009, 12:09 am

you missed my point, you said one thing, I disproved it, second, My POINT was the law of unintended consquences, I.E Using heroin to treat opium addiction lead to a worse addiction. Therefore, if you legalize drugs, then the drug makers are gonna find some other venture to make money. Who knows, they could turn to child porn, arms dealing and what not.


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