Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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21 Sep 2022, 9:59 am

I should like to add that my sister is best friends with a girl who is actually from Russia, and she's one of the sweetest people I've ever met. I have not seen her in years but I can only imagine the dread she must feel about what is going on with her country right now.

magz
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21 Sep 2022, 10:19 am

Can you imagine what my Ukrainian friends are going through?

Yes, this war harms them both. A sensitive Russian with a mind connected to the reality should mourn right now, I think. I would.

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DeathFlowerKing
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21 Sep 2022, 10:21 am

magz wrote:

Can you imagine what mu Ukrainian friends are going through?

Of course, I can imagine both Ukranians AND some Russians are horrified by what is happening.

DeathFlowerKing
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21 Sep 2022, 10:30 am

I mean we all know the reality is that nobody except Putin actually wanted this stupid war to happen. I'd say there's a special place in Hell waiting for him right next to Hitler, if I still believed in Hell.

magz
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21 Sep 2022, 10:36 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

If there was really "nobody except Putin", he wouldn't be able to start it.
Imperialist sentiments were strong in Russia already back in 2008, when I talked to random people on a train there. Add years of propaganda to it and that's what you get.
The problem is not Putin alone. It's the whole KGB-based system where Putin was able to get us all to this point.

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DeathFlowerKing
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21 Sep 2022, 10:53 am

magz wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

I guess you're right, I'm sure it was the same case with Hitler. He wouldnt have been able to kick off World War 2 and invade Poland had he not had enough support in Germany.

I guess in a way it's easier for history to put all the blame on individual leaders than it is to divide the blame equally among the people who enabled these leaders.

Kind of like how King Henry the VIII who was practically being exploited by his own men to reshape England and break away from the Catholic Church for their own political gain. Many people ended up dying because of this.

magz
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21 Sep 2022, 2:03 pm

What Meduza (one of the rare existing independent Russian media) gathered about the mobilization:
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/09/21 ... ve-for-now

Quote:

The Kremlin isn’t expecting widespread protests against mobilization. One source close to the Putin administration’s domestic policy bloc told Meduza that public discontent in response to the news is “expected, but not critical.”

Another source close to the Kremlin told Meduza that “the majority of people still support the SVO [‘special military operation’]. For them, the president’s argument that mobilization is necessary to oppose NATO will be sufficient. And for now, those who are terribly upset can still leave — nobody’s going to arrest them at this point. Everything will be done gradually.”

My Polish news site says, already over 1000 detained in country-wide protests, counting hour by hour.

I wonder if they miscalculated the reaction of Russians the same way they miscalculated the reaction of Ukrainians back in February? No one had courage to give the tsar the bad news that people don't love him that much?

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Nades
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21 Sep 2022, 2:18 pm

magz wrote:

What Meduza (one of the rare existing independent Russian media) gathered about the mobilization:
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/09/21 ... ve-for-now

Quote:

I think a lot of Russians are not falling from him. I think Putin will get whacked before any substantial escalation of conflict happens.

magz
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21 Sep 2022, 2:24 pm

Hopefully.
Right now, the way to save Russia in roughly current shape is to get rid of Putin and dump all the blame on him.
Unfortunately, I'm capable of imagining worse scenarios before (if ever) that happens.

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goldfish21
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21 Sep 2022, 2:30 pm

Crazy. All of it.

Only a couple airlines flying out of Russia so tix are over $9k one way:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/russians ... id=4930241

“All the Russians who wanted to go to war already went,” the group said. “No one else wants to go there!”

^makes sense. Somehow I don't see morale being very high nor training very good.. everyone's just being treated as cannon fodder for putin's delusions of conquest.

Also, seems Serbia has played their cards right.. Russians moving there opening IT businesses has to be good for their economy - well - good internally, maybe not so good for longer term relations with the rest of Europe. But somehow I don't think they care.

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magz
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21 Sep 2022, 2:37 pm

I'm wondering... it can really boil in Russia this time, because the protesters are literally fighting for survival.

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goldfish21
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21 Sep 2022, 2:48 pm

magz wrote:

I'm wondering... it can really boil in Russia this time, because the protesters are literally fighting for survival.

Wouldn't it be ironic if putin's decades long mission of destroying the USA from within fails as Americans rally together to save their democracy and jail the orange unwitting kgb agent while putin's war mobilisation move at home becomes the move that unravels Russia from within?

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DeathFlowerKing
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21 Sep 2022, 2:58 pm

We can only hope.

magz
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22 Sep 2022, 2:21 am

goldfish21 wrote:

magz wrote:

I'm wondering... it can really boil in Russia this time, because the protesters are literally fighting for survival.

It would be just another jewel in the crown:
Reviving NATO and prompting its expansion;
Uniting Ukrainian nation in their Western aspirations;
Getting Poland, Ukraine and Lithuania to stop arguing all our historical conflicts, unite and trust each other again;
Raising the position of the above within EU and internationally;
Prompting Germany and other European nations to stop doing business with Russia...

I'm waiting for democratization of Belarus as another welcome side effect of all this catastrophe.

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Worthless
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22 Sep 2022, 2:39 am

goldfish21 wrote:

magz wrote:

I'm wondering... it can really boil in Russia this time, because the protesters are literally fighting for survival.

Yeah... I can't see that happening. Support for trump is still disterbingly high. They are continuing to rally around him and in many way are getting more entrenched in their finatisism. Thankfully, at least where I am, they have cut down on their live fire trainings, but I think that may be more an issue of ammo being expensive and they couldn't sustain the high level of use.

goldfish21
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22 Sep 2022, 2:44 am

Live fire training for what ? Murdering people?

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