Aspie Communists Unite

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I think over time societies will have to evolve towards something in between capitalism and communism. The problem is without a system in place for gradual democratic reforms societies tend to go back and forth between different extreme forms of government. The most oppressive communists states are cultures without a history of anything but rule by one elite or another. The problem is if you have to overcome the ruling elite with guns then once you obtain power the only way to maintain it is through arbitrary decree. This is because no political system of checks and balances is in place. The problem is not a specific economic system but an ideology based political system that enforces "purity" and doesn't allow dissent or reform.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... esAndTogas

... and you learned this at which university?

And who will control the machines and decide what is produced and in what quantities?

You still don't get it. Heirarchy and class exist because of human egoism and selfishness. People are willing to be generous when it does them no harm or hardship to do so. But watch what happens to generosity when the conditions pinch. You cannot deny the centrality of selfishness in human affairs It is there. It is like trying to deny rainfall when you wish for sunshine. Reality is Real and no amount of denial or ignoring will make it go away.

ruveyn

... besides, automation has reached its social limits, at least for a few decades. Right now, machines may replace un-skilled or low-skilled labor, but what to do with the excessed human laborers? A minority are willing and able to be retrained, but most seem to have taken the easy out of an early retirement, have found work in other fields, or are content to live off whatever goodwill may be left in their families and social welfare systems.

But what automation can not do (yet) is be creative. Allow a supercomputer unlimited and fast access to the entire Internet, and the best you can hope for is for it to win on "Jeopardy!". Ask it how to bring about world peace, and you'll likely not get an answer that makes sense, if you get an answer at all.

You're right, Ruve; heirarchy and classism exist because of human egoism and selfishness; eliminate these two characteristics from the human spirit, and watch humanity stagnate and die out due to lack of personal initiative.

Greed and avarice drive civilization just as surely as lust and porn drive the Internet.

This can count as an argument for libertarian communism. We already produce enough food to end world hunger but we don't because of the market, which forces people sacrifice their own living standards to be charitable. Capitalism is incentivising greed and destruction. To be charitable in capitalism is to lose. There are many ways we can determine the demand for goods.

Last edited by RushKing on 10 Mar 2013, 7:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Communism is God-less feudalism at the point of a gun.

At least with Capitalism, even the poorest person has the opportunity to realize his or her dreams, once religious fanaticism is done away with.

I don't know what type of "communism" your talking about, but It certainly isn't libertarian communism.

Without feudalism, it can't be Communism.

Corrected

Not university, the works of Howard Scott and his forerunners.

Complete fantasy.

Capitalism and secularism reside together in a wide array of economies at different stages, the poorest among which have absolutely no chance of realising a place among the top.

... and you learned this at which university?

I don't see how giving the state obscene amounts of power and persecuting those with differing ideologies constitutes "fairness", but that's just me. In my opinion, the only truly fair society is one where people are allowed to live freely without the state micromanaging their lives. But I still respect your opinion.

not everyone who identifies as a communist believes that description you gave constitutes communism.

Essentially, there is 2 main schools within Communism, Trotskyism and Stalinism. Stalinists would have you believe that the sort which happened with purges, massacres and human rights abuses, was 'true red' communism. Trotskyism on the other hand advocates that due to counter revolutionary pressure and subversion from overseas, true communism or 'permanent revolution' is only possible when it is applied globally, at once and that the form we witnessed is symptomatic of what happens when a permanent revolution is not acheived.

Personally, I dont think that communism was given a fair crack of the whip for the reasons suggested by the Trotskyists. I'm not necessarilly convinced it would have been long term successfully, not because it would have ended in persecutions but because it is another iteration of the price system.

communism (for want of a better word) only works when the infrastructure for class has been removed. As in different levels of skilled labour.



but under the free market, workers are having their lives micro managed by the private sector. At least in a direct democracy you can vote against this.

While there is enough food to feed every one, there is a shortage of clean water. Also we do not produce energy efficiently. If we did there would be enough energy available to heat of the cold places and cool of the hot places. We are not quite in the post-scarcity era. The only way to make over seven billion souls comfortable is to reduce the comfort enjoyed by several hundred million of the more fortunate. I guarantee to you, that this people will not reduce their level of consumption or standard of living without a fight. Once again, selfishness and egotism assert themselves. There very well off or even the moderately well off will not be "equalized" willingly.,

I consider myself as an example. While I am far from rich I enjoy a comfortable American standard of living and consumption. If I were told to halve my living standard so 1000 poor people could live at a very modest level I would refuse. Why should I gave up any comfort for people I do not know and who have done nothing for me. And if they die they die. Since I did not make them poor in the first place I have no obligation whatsoever to make them more prosperous at my expense and the expense of my family. Tough nuggies on the miserable of the earth.

ruveyn