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Feminism vs. Equality

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TeaEarlGreyHot
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30 Mar 2011, 2:08 pm

How are closed rape trials an example of inequality? Aren't they closed to protect the victim?


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ikorack
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30 Mar 2011, 2:11 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
How are closed rape trials an example of inequality? Aren't they closed to protect the victim?


Justice cannot be done in the shadows, and men are the primary defendants in rape trials. How does a closed trial protect the alleged victim?

EDIt Fixed some wording, also even if you can argue that it does protect the alleged victim in some way how does the justify a trial done without public accountability.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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30 Mar 2011, 2:18 pm

I didn't realize a rape victim had to answer to the public.


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AceOfSpades
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30 Mar 2011, 2:25 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Women deserve equality in all respects. And the men here should be aware, happy women = happy men :wink:
That's right but the word equality has been twisted by the left to mean "Retaliatory preferential treatment".



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30 Mar 2011, 2:29 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Women deserve equality in all respects. And the men here should be aware, happy women = happy men :wink:
That's right but the word equality has been twisted by the left to mean "Retaliatory preferential treatment".


Yeah.

Check the percentage of male versus female

CEO's
Bank Presidents
Legislators
Supreme Court Members
Religious Leaders
University Presidents
College Professors

and then get back to us on "preferential treatment".

:roll:


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AceOfSpades
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30 Mar 2011, 2:32 pm

Bethie wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Women deserve equality in all respects. And the men here should be aware, happy women = happy men :wink:
That's right but the word equality has been twisted by the left to mean "Retaliatory preferential treatment".


Yeah.

Check the percentage of male versus female

CEO's
Bank Presidents
Legislators
Supreme Court Members
Religious Leaders
University Presidents
College Professors

and then get back to us on "preferential treatment".

:roll:
More women do yoga than men, does that mean men are discriminated against? You haven't proven whether those positions have more men cuz it appeals to men more or cuz of active discrimination being the norm.



ikorack
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30 Mar 2011, 2:35 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I didn't realize a rape victim had to answer to the public.


No, but the court is. Rape shield laws(the one concerning the alleged victims and their names) protect any victims from the public well enough. There is no justification for a completely closed court.

@Bethie does not prove discrimination.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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30 Mar 2011, 2:37 pm

ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I didn't realize a rape victim had to answer to the public.


No, but the court is. Rape shield laws(the one concerning the alleged victims and their names) protect any victims from the public well enough. There is no justification for a completely closed court.


Please explain in your own words. I won't click on links.


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Bethie
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30 Mar 2011, 2:40 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
You haven't proven whether those positions have more men cuz it appeals to men more or cuz of active discrimination being the norm.


Whether due to the deep-seated nature of gender roles in our society,
or deliberate discrimination,
the point is that women do not hold equal power in our society AT ALL.

@ikorack

Counting a previous thread,
I've spent damned near a dozen pages requesting evidence supporting your claims of some type of organization or hierarchy unifying the ideology of feminism, and have yet to see any. I'll engage you no further.


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Last edited by Bethie on 30 Mar 2011, 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ikorack
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30 Mar 2011, 2:42 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I didn't realize a rape victim had to answer to the public.


No, but the court is. Rape shield laws(the one concerning the alleged victims and their names) protect any victims from the public well enough. There is no justification for a completely closed court.


Please explain in your own words. I won't click on links.


Swedish rape trials are closed to the public. American rape trials are open to the public but do not allow the distribution of the alleged victims name. That is the comparison I am making.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_shield_law

Quote:
A rape shield law is a law that limits a defendant's ability to cross-examine rape complainants about their past sexual behavior. The term also refers to a law that prohibits the publication of the identity of an alleged rape victim.


@bethie And I have explained to you my only claim is political cooperation and cohesiveness a hierarchy doesn't even validate that argument and a lack of hierarchy doesn't invalidate it either.

EDIT: Although rape shield laws have been ruled unconstitutional when brought to court, their passing resulted in a state of protection for the alleged victim whether or not the law is ruled unconstitutional. aka Even if our trials are held completely open the victim would still hold their privacy.



Last edited by ikorack on 30 Mar 2011, 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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30 Mar 2011, 2:48 pm

ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I didn't realize a rape victim had to answer to the public.


No, but the court is. Rape shield laws(the one concerning the alleged victims and their names) protect any victims from the public well enough. There is no justification for a completely closed court.


Please explain in your own words. I won't click on links.


Swedish rape trials are closed to the public. American rape trials are open to the public but do not allow the distribution of the alleged victims name. That is the comparison I am making.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_shield_law

Quote:
A rape shield law is a law that limits a defendant's ability to cross-examine rape complainants about their past sexual behavior. The term also refers to a law that prohibits the publication of the identity of an alleged rape victim.


I get that you are making that comparison. What I want you to explain is how a closed rape trial shows inequality.

Is it just because men are disproportionately accused of rape, or is there more to it than that?

Do you assume only female victims get the advantage of a closed rape trial?


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30 Mar 2011, 2:49 pm

Bethie wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
You haven't proven whether those positions have more men cuz it appeals to men more or cuz of active discrimination being the norm.


Whether due to the deep-seated nature of gender roles in our society,
or deliberate discrimination,
the point is that women do not hold equal power in our society AT ALL.

@ikorack

Counting a previous thread,
I've spent damned near a dozen pages requesting evidence supporting your claims of some type of organization or hierarchy unifying the ideology of feminism, and have yet to see any. I'll engage you no further.


Additionally to the fewer number of female CEOs I have read statistics in the past that show they are paid less then equivalent positions held by men


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30 Mar 2011, 2:51 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
I didn't realize a rape victim had to answer to the public.


No, but the court is. Rape shield laws(the one concerning the alleged victims and their names) protect any victims from the public well enough. There is no justification for a completely closed court.


Please explain in your own words. I won't click on links.


Swedish rape trials are closed to the public. American rape trials are open to the public but do not allow the distribution of the alleged victims name. That is the comparison I am making.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_shield_law

Quote:
A rape shield law is a law that limits a defendant's ability to cross-examine rape complainants about their past sexual behavior. The term also refers to a law that prohibits the publication of the identity of an alleged rape victim.


I get that you are making that comparison. What I want you to explain is how a closed rape trial shows inequality.

Is it just because men are disproportionately accused of rape, or is there more to it than that?

Do you assume only female victims get the advantage of a closed rape trial?


? It's not a matter of advantage how can the law be trusted if it is carried out in a completely closed manner. And yes if there was an issue in the judgment of rape laws men would be affected more.(Well depending, if it was an issue resulting in more false accusations being ruled as valid it would affect men, if it was the other way with valid claims being thrown out then it would affect women more.)

EDIT



TeaEarlGreyHot
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30 Mar 2011, 2:58 pm

ikorack wrote:

? It's not a matter of advantage how can the law be trusted if it is carried out in a completely closed manner. And yes if there was an issue in the judgment of rape laws men would be affected more.(Well depending, if it was an issue resulting in more false accusations being ruled as valid it would affect men, if it was the other way with valid claims being thrown out then it would affect women more.)

EDIT


I understand all of that. However, you seemed to have been against closed trials because it somehow showed inequality. If I misunderstood what you were saying, then I'll back out. :-)


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30 Mar 2011, 3:04 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
ikorack wrote:

? It's not a matter of advantage how can the law be trusted if it is carried out in a completely closed manner. And yes if there was an issue in the judgment of rape laws men would be affected more.(Well depending, if it was an issue resulting in more false accusations being ruled as valid it would affect men, if it was the other way with valid claims being thrown out then it would affect women more.)

EDIT


I understand all of that. However, you seemed to have been against closed trials because it somehow showed inequality. If I misunderstood what you were saying, then I'll back out. :-)


Well it does show inequality, the complete closing of trials in Sweden shows a lack of concern in both a fair trial(In regards to rape) and in issues which might affect men more than women. If fair trials were of interest then the trial itself would be open to the public while shielding the victim if their privacy was a concern. If the issues of men were a concern the trials would have never been closed and only the victims name would be cut off from the public.



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30 Mar 2011, 3:04 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
More women do yoga than men, does that mean men are discriminated against

That is actually more due to us men not having vaginas 8) :wink:


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