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blunnet
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23 Apr 2011, 11:07 pm

Fnord wrote:
I needed no-one to tell me that the Biblical value for Pi - as derived from 1 Kings 7:23 - is wrong.

30 cubits around, and 10 cubits across ... Circumference equals the diameter times Pi ... 30 divided by 10 is 3 ... the value of Pi is closer to 22 divided by 7 ... even closer to 355 divided by 113 ... none are close to the value that my calculator says.

Bible: 3 (This is about 4.5% too low)

22/7 = 3.1428571428571428571428571428571 (This is about 0.04% too high)

355/113 = 3.1415929203539823008849557522124 (This is about 0.0000085% too high)

Calculator 'Pi' button: 3.1415926535897932384626433832795 (This is as close to the actual value of Pi as anyone ever needs to get)

Okay, so all of these values for Pi are "Wrong", since there is no way to represent the actual value with rational values. However, if the Bible is supposed to be the complete and inerrent word of a perfect god, then why is the Biblical value for Pi not even close to a workable value? Why did the writers of the Bible leave it up to Archimedes to compute Pi to two decimal places using inscribed and cirumscribed polygons (c. 260 BCE)? The book of 1st Kings was written sometime between 930 BCE and 430 BCE.

That's another thing ... if the Bbile is so historically accurate, then why is there no universally agreed-upon dates for the vast majority of the events in it?

Ad hoc explanation: God works in mysterious ways.

Seriously, I don't care about Pi, and Christians should not care about it either, 3 is an aproximation of 3.14 or 3.141593............, and that is enough to get the point of message intended in that part of the Bible, if we have gotten the number 4 instead, then we would have a real problem, so your pi objection is not agreeable, I mean, I'm not a believer but I don't see something so seriously wrong with this, and that can be simply objected by saying that the Bible is not a math or a geometry book.



Inuyasha
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23 Apr 2011, 11:17 pm

DeaconBlues wrote:
LKL, if someone is trying to justify some position as "proved" because of something in the Bible (usually I find this happening with anti-abortionists and those who hate gay people), then feel free to deride them. However, it works even better if you point out passages that either a) oppose their points (for instance, some claim to find justification for believing life beings at conception in the Bible; simply point them to Genesis 2:7, where the first man did not come to life until God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life"; thus, the Biblical position should be that life begins when the baby takes the first breath of air), or b) are in the same section, and being ignored by that same Christian (for instance, Leviticus 18:22 says gay sex is bad; Lev. 19:18 also says you can't take vengeance against anyone or hold a grudge of any sort, and Lev. 19 forbids crossbreeding cattle and wearing cotton/poly blend clothing ["a garment... of two kinds of material mixed together"]).


And I would point out your first quote is seriously out of context, God created man from inanimate objects, i.e. from scratch. The creation of humans is not an in the womb situation where the mother exists. It is not a chicken and the egg concept.



cdfox7
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23 Apr 2011, 11:17 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
the internet is anti-Christian


You assuming all of the Internet it, so have you hear of the Bloggernacle then? I guess not



Awesomelyglorious
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23 Apr 2011, 11:18 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
Food for thought plus it might literary shut the atheists up:

Not really, no. It's from the book of Mormon. The book of Mormon is known to be historically less accurate than the Bible.... and the Bible is already doubted on grounds of accuracy. In any case, the claims about Korihor do not really speak to most atheists.



blunnet
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23 Apr 2011, 11:19 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
I mean, it isn't as if your belief you love your husband contradicts a set of other ideas people honestly have about the world.

I think it could, for instance, what that "love" actually is, is the idea of unconditional love false and an illusion? is love always selfish, etc? but we would be getting into another issue.



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23 Apr 2011, 11:21 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
Food for thought plus it might literary shut the atheists up:

Not really, no. It's from the book of Mormon. The book of Mormon is known to be historically less accurate than the Bible.... and the Bible is already doubted on grounds of accuracy. In any case, the claims about Korihor do not really speak to most atheists.


Have you read it or are you basing your option on second hand information?



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23 Apr 2011, 11:22 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
In any case, long-story short, the internet is anti-Christian, and I would tend to think a few academic disciplines could be considered so as well, partly depending on how we define "Christian".

No, it is simple non-Christian. That is, it is a global communications network that was not designed for the express purpose of feeding Christian pride and vanity.

Of course, fundies love the maxim, "Those who are not for us are against us", meaning that if you are not a Xian Fundy yourself, then you belong to the devil, plain and simple.

Christians (and people of other religions) should thank their gods for the fact that they are tolerated on the Internet at all. Were it not so, there would be no Christians on the Internet.


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Last edited by Fnord on 23 Apr 2011, 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blunnet
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23 Apr 2011, 11:24 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
the internet is anti-Christian


You assuming all of the Internet it, so have you hear of the Bloggernacle then? I guess not

The Internet is the forbidden fruit of knowledge.



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23 Apr 2011, 11:26 pm

blunnet wrote:
... I'm not a believer but I don't see something so seriously wrong with this, and that can be simply objected by saying that the Bible is not a math or a geometry book.

The point I have tried to make is that the Bible is neither historically nor mathematically accurate. It is a collection of largely apocryphal stories, passed down from slaves and nomads who were more concerned with justifying their murderous ways and their subjugation of women than with being accurate, or with even providing examples of proper "Christian" behavior.


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Inuyasha
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23 Apr 2011, 11:28 pm

Fnord wrote:
blunnet wrote:
... I'm not a believer but I don't see something so seriously wrong with this, and that can be simply objected by saying that the Bible is not a math or a geometry book.

The point I have tried to make is that the Bible is neither historically nor mathematically accurate. It is a collection of largely apocryphal stories, passed down from slaves and nomads who were more concerned with justifying their murderous ways and their subjugation of women than with being accurate, or with even providing examples of proper "Christian" behavior.


And this is one of the examples of atheist bigotry, thank you for proving person whom came up with the topic right.



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23 Apr 2011, 11:29 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
the internet is anti-Christian


You assuming all of the Internet it, so have you hear of the Bloggernacle then? I guess not

Well, no, what I am simply pointing out is that atheism tends to be very popular on the internet, to the point where often criticism of Christianity tends to be everywhere.



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23 Apr 2011, 11:30 pm

blunnet wrote:
I think it could, for instance, what that "love" actually is, is the idea of unconditional love false and an illusion? is love always selfish, etc? but we would be getting into another issue.

Is it logically possible? Yes. Is it actual? No. I don't think anybody will have that argument anytime soon, even on PPR. I really hope we don't have that argument at least....



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23 Apr 2011, 11:31 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
the internet is anti-Christian


You assuming all of the Internet it, so have you hear of the Bloggernacle then? I guess not

Well, no, what I am simply pointing out is that atheism tends to be very popular on the internet, to the point where often criticism of Christianity tends to be everywhere.


Which you can argue is bigotry directed towards a single religion because we don't see threads popping up here bashing Islam.



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23 Apr 2011, 11:33 pm

blunnet wrote:
cdfox7 wrote:
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
the internet is anti-Christian


You assuming all of the Internet it, so have you hear of the Bloggernacle then? I guess not

The Internet is the forbidden fruit of knowledge.


A smartarsed opinion. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:6 wrote:
It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.



blunnet
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23 Apr 2011, 11:36 pm

Fnord wrote:
The point I have tried to make is that the Bible is neither historically nor mathematically accurate.

The Bible is claimed to be historically accurate, and wether is claimed to be mathematically accurate is another matter, the issue is that a text book can be accurate on one subject but innacurate on another subject, and disputes are between denominations about the interpretation of the historicity and some numbers.

I'm not saying that the Bible is accurate historically wether mathematically isn't, the issue is that the reasoning gets flawed, because A (the math) isn't relevant to B (the claimed history) if A and B are not that connected in the text, I mean, in some cases B will not depend on A to be accurate, and the criticism should be focused on something that is actually relevant and of more value.

Quote:
It is a collection of largely apocryphal stories, passed down from slaves and nomads who were more concerned with justifying their murderous ways and their subjugation of women than with being accurate, or with even providing examples of proper "Christian" behavior.

Yeah but that has nothing to do with mathematics.



Last edited by blunnet on 23 Apr 2011, 11:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Awesomelyglorious
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23 Apr 2011, 11:39 pm

cdfox7 wrote:
Have you read it or are you basing your option on second hand information?

Nothing stated would have even been related to reading it or not. Mormonism being a cult... is pretty well-known, as genetic claims by LDS are doubted as valid(it is known that LDS considers native americans to be linked back the Jewish tribes) As well, traditional LDS claims on blacks are... considered disturbing, as they justified racist attitudes at the time using theological doctrines.

I mean... let's put it this way, Christians are crazy, but Mormons are the folks so crazy even the Christians call them out on it.

To even look at it another way, mainstream Christian scriptures can have validity as having some history even if the religion is false. However, with LDS, we either have to accept that Smith had golden tablets that nobody else ever saw, or we have to consider the entire religion bunk lacking actual historical foundation.



Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 23 Apr 2011, 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.