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Do spiritual things exist?

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Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 3:16 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
edgewaters wrote:
Joker wrote:
No they don't do it willingly at least we will. Atheists can not compete with us because they lack martyrs dieing for what you believe in. Or for a cause leaves a powerful statement and the masses become intrigued by it.


“The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.” - Patton


So you agree with me then that atheists will never die in the name of their beliefs.


You're looking at this wrong (and also trolling the thread like a total boss). Atheism's a negative viewpoint. Dying for it would be a pretty stupid idea - it'd be like dying for not thinking the sky is green. Atheists have died for various beliefs, though - belief in freedom of speech, for example, or for their countries, etc. The thing most theists don't understand is that "atheists" are not an organized body of people with a bunch of beliefs in common - the only thing we've got in common is a lack of belief in a deity, an organized religion, or both. Zen Buddhists are technically atheists, but I'm certain we'd all agree that they're very different from, say, Richard Dawkins or Thomas Jefferson, who were also atheists/deists, yes?


How am I trolling if anything I am deraling it. And btw which is why you can't nor will you die for that belife. But theists will die in the name of God willingly.


You're either missing the point or much more stupid than I previously thought you were. Atheists don't die for atheism - but we might die for the right to believe or not believe as we choose. We won't fight for atheism, but we will fight to separate church and state. We know our battles, and unlike Christians don't have a gigantic persecution complex (despite that Real Actual Persecution); politically-motivated atheists generally recognize that you can do more for freedom of belief alive than you can dead.


I suppot seperation from church and state when the two come together theists suffer.



SpiritBlooms
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27 Jun 2012, 3:31 pm

...



Last edited by SpiritBlooms on 27 Jun 2012, 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 3:35 pm

SpiritBlooms wrote:
It's the same attack early mainstream Christians made against Gnostics who valued their lives, and it didn't wash then either. It took a theocratic government to eliminate them. Willingness to die for a belief doesn't validate that belief, or make it any more true. Willingness to kill for a belief - well, it usually goes against that belief. Willingly dying for one's beliefs is the resort of fanatics and suicide bombers. There's no glory in it except in the mind of the person engaging in that form of suicide.


Their is a lot of glory in it when your dealing with a theist. plenty of us have died for our faith it's what we are some times called to do. And we glady do it and it isn't a form of suicide beucase they didn't take their lifes some one else did so it's not a suicide.



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27 Jun 2012, 3:50 pm

Joker wrote:
SpiritBlooms wrote:
It's the same attack early mainstream Christians made against Gnostics who valued their lives, and it didn't wash then either. It took a theocratic government to eliminate them. Willingness to die for a belief doesn't validate that belief, or make it any more true. Willingness to kill for a belief - well, it usually goes against that belief. Willingly dying for one's beliefs is the resort of fanatics and suicide bombers. There's no glory in it except in the mind of the person engaging in that form of suicide.


Their is a lot of glory in it when your dealing with a theist. plenty of us have died for our faith it's what we are some times called to do. And we glady do it and it isn't a form of suicide beucase they didn't take their lifes some one else did so it's not a suicide.


Tell us - what is good or helpful to the cause of Christianity about dying for it? Refusing to renounce your beliefs in the face of death is one thing (and I will say that it's a brave thing to do), but the simple blanket statement of 'dying for your belief' doesn't cover just that, does it? What's so great about, I dunno, the Oklahoma City Bomber? Suicide bombers? Fanatical soldiers?


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Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 3:53 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
SpiritBlooms wrote:
It's the same attack early mainstream Christians made against Gnostics who valued their lives, and it didn't wash then either. It took a theocratic government to eliminate them. Willingness to die for a belief doesn't validate that belief, or make it any more true. Willingness to kill for a belief - well, it usually goes against that belief. Willingly dying for one's beliefs is the resort of fanatics and suicide bombers. There's no glory in it except in the mind of the person engaging in that form of suicide.


Their is a lot of glory in it when your dealing with a theist. plenty of us have died for our faith it's what we are some times called to do. And we glady do it and it isn't a form of suicide beucase they didn't take their lifes some one else did so it's not a suicide.


Tell us - what is good or helpful to the cause of Christianity about dying for it? Refusing to renounce your beliefs in the face of death is one thing (and I will say that it's a brave thing to do), but the simple blanket statement of 'dying for your belief' doesn't cover just that, does it? What's so great about, I dunno, the Oklahoma City Bomber? Suicide bombers? Fanatical soldiers?


Fanaticals do it for the wrong reasons your not suppose to take some one with you when you die for your belifes. And dying for a faith is the greatest challenge a theists must be willing to face.



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27 Jun 2012, 3:58 pm

Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
SpiritBlooms wrote:
It's the same attack early mainstream Christians made against Gnostics who valued their lives, and it didn't wash then either. It took a theocratic government to eliminate them. Willingness to die for a belief doesn't validate that belief, or make it any more true. Willingness to kill for a belief - well, it usually goes against that belief. Willingly dying for one's beliefs is the resort of fanatics and suicide bombers. There's no glory in it except in the mind of the person engaging in that form of suicide.


Their is a lot of glory in it when your dealing with a theist. plenty of us have died for our faith it's what we are some times called to do. And we glady do it and it isn't a form of suicide beucase they didn't take their lifes some one else did so it's not a suicide.


Tell us - what is good or helpful to the cause of Christianity about dying for it? Refusing to renounce your beliefs in the face of death is one thing (and I will say that it's a brave thing to do), but the simple blanket statement of 'dying for your belief' doesn't cover just that, does it? What's so great about, I dunno, the Oklahoma City Bomber? Suicide bombers? Fanatical soldiers?


Fanaticals do it for the wrong reasons your not suppose to take some one with you when you die for your belifes. And dying for a faith is the greatest challenge a theists must be willing to face.


Psst - still failing to answer the question.


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Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 4:03 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
SpiritBlooms wrote:
It's the same attack early mainstream Christians made against Gnostics who valued their lives, and it didn't wash then either. It took a theocratic government to eliminate them. Willingness to die for a belief doesn't validate that belief, or make it any more true. Willingness to kill for a belief - well, it usually goes against that belief. Willingly dying for one's beliefs is the resort of fanatics and suicide bombers. There's no glory in it except in the mind of the person engaging in that form of suicide.


Their is a lot of glory in it when your dealing with a theist. plenty of us have died for our faith it's what we are some times called to do. And we glady do it and it isn't a form of suicide beucase they didn't take their lifes some one else did so it's not a suicide.


Tell us - what is good or helpful to the cause of Christianity about dying for it? Refusing to renounce your beliefs in the face of death is one thing (and I will say that it's a brave thing to do), but the simple blanket statement of 'dying for your belief' doesn't cover just that, does it? What's so great about, I dunno, the Oklahoma City Bomber? Suicide bombers? Fanatical soldiers?


Fanaticals do it for the wrong reasons your not suppose to take some one with you when you die for your belifes. And dying for a faith is the greatest challenge a theists must be willing to face.


Psst - still failing to answer the question.


I did you fail to accept my answer.



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27 Jun 2012, 4:28 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
I dunno, tell that to the atheist man in Mississippi that got stoned to death in a public square in 2009.

Do you have a link for that?


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Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 4:29 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
I dunno, tell that to the atheist man in Mississippi that got stoned to death in a public square in 2009.

Do you have a link for that?

I would also like to see this link or it's just a cliam and not true.



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27 Jun 2012, 4:35 pm

Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
SpiritBlooms wrote:
It's the same attack early mainstream Christians made against Gnostics who valued their lives, and it didn't wash then either. It took a theocratic government to eliminate them. Willingness to die for a belief doesn't validate that belief, or make it any more true. Willingness to kill for a belief - well, it usually goes against that belief. Willingly dying for one's beliefs is the resort of fanatics and suicide bombers. There's no glory in it except in the mind of the person engaging in that form of suicide.


Their is a lot of glory in it when your dealing with a theist. plenty of us have died for our faith it's what we are some times called to do. And we glady do it and it isn't a form of suicide beucase they didn't take their lifes some one else did so it's not a suicide.


Tell us - what is good or helpful to the cause of Christianity about dying for it? Refusing to renounce your beliefs in the face of death is one thing (and I will say that it's a brave thing to do), but the simple blanket statement of 'dying for your belief' doesn't cover just that, does it? What's so great about, I dunno, the Oklahoma City Bomber? Suicide bombers? Fanatical soldiers?


Fanaticals do it for the wrong reasons your not suppose to take some one with you when you die for your belifes. And dying for a faith is the greatest challenge a theists must be willing to face.


Psst - still failing to answer the question.


I did you fail to accept my answer.


Saying, "It's the greatest challenge theists must be willing to face," is not an answer to, "Why is it good?"

I'll hunt up the link, but it might take me awhile; this particular PC is crap and my google-fu is weak on a good day.


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Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 4:43 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Joker wrote:
SpiritBlooms wrote:
It's the same attack early mainstream Christians made against Gnostics who valued their lives, and it didn't wash then either. It took a theocratic government to eliminate them. Willingness to die for a belief doesn't validate that belief, or make it any more true. Willingness to kill for a belief - well, it usually goes against that belief. Willingly dying for one's beliefs is the resort of fanatics and suicide bombers. There's no glory in it except in the mind of the person engaging in that form of suicide.


Their is a lot of glory in it when your dealing with a theist. plenty of us have died for our faith it's what we are some times called to do. And we glady do it and it isn't a form of suicide beucase they didn't take their lifes some one else did so it's not a suicide.


Tell us - what is good or helpful to the cause of Christianity about dying for it? Refusing to renounce your beliefs in the face of death is one thing (and I will say that it's a brave thing to do), but the simple blanket statement of 'dying for your belief' doesn't cover just that, does it? What's so great about, I dunno, the Oklahoma City Bomber? Suicide bombers? Fanatical soldiers?


Fanaticals do it for the wrong reasons your not suppose to take some one with you when you die for your belifes. And dying for a faith is the greatest challenge a theists must be willing to face.


Psst - still failing to answer the question.


I did you fail to accept my answer.


Saying, "It's the greatest challenge theists must be willing to face," is not an answer to, "Why is it good?"

I'll hunt up the link, but it might take me awhile; this particular PC is crap and my google-fu is weak on a good day.


Because Jesus gave up his life if we face the same thing we are to give up ours for him.



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27 Jun 2012, 4:52 pm

Still having trouble finding the link (I'ma rope some friends of mine into helping), but I did find this interesting collection of news stories, including a couple that were driven out of their town of residence:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUujzJRxNSk[/youtube]


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Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 4:53 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Still having trouble finding the link (I'ma rope some friends of mine into helping), but I did find this interesting collection of news stories, including a couple that were driven out of their town of residence:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUujzJRxNSk[/youtube]


Unless we are killing them for being atheists then it's not persuction.



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27 Jun 2012, 4:56 pm

Joker wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Still having trouble finding the link (I'ma rope some friends of mine into helping), but I did find this interesting collection of news stories, including a couple that were driven out of their town of residence:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUujzJRxNSk[/youtube]


Unless we are killing them for being atheists then it's not persuction.


Image


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27 Jun 2012, 5:12 pm

Joker wrote:
Unless we are killing them for being atheists then it's not persuction.


Hmm ... so if we ban Christianity, bar Christians from political office, and relocate them to prison camps, it's not persecution?



Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 5:19 pm

edgewaters wrote:
Joker wrote:
Unless we are killing them for being atheists then it's not persuction.


Hmm ... so if we ban Christianity, bar Christians from political office, and relocate them to prison camps, it's not persecution?


Seeing how Christians are the mayjortiy don't see that happening.