Conservatives insist the rest of us live by their rules

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sly279
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02 Jul 2015, 6:03 pm

Dillogic wrote:
quiet_dove wrote:
Both Britain and Australia have banned guns, and have little-to-no gun violence these days. Yet Libertarians don't care about that.


I can speak of Oz. They didn't ban gunz, rather removed "assault weapons" from general use. England did similar, but also with handguns.

3 of 4 studies in Oz show that murders with firearms haven't actually decreased since then (the course has been steady); method substitution hasn't even kicked in yet. Homicide rate is of course the same (which should be expected, as people will still murder no matter what weapon they have access to).

We haven't had as many spree killings with firearms since the national reforms, though. I doubt they had anything to do with it, as there's still a ton of legally and illegally owned firearms here, but that's me speculating.

It's pretty much been a waste of time for the crime rate (not to mention punishing the innocent for no valid reason).


well upon my research it seems you guys have had at least two mass shootings since then.

AspieUtah wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
I can speak of Oz. They didn't ban gunz, rather removed "assault weapons" from general use. England did similar, but also with handguns....

Did either nation use U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein's definition of "assault weapon"? You know, black instead of some other color, handles attached to it, and some ... (duh-duh-DUH) ... plastic parts?!? Any edu-mah-cated individual knows that those features spell DANGER. :lol:



don't forget the shoulder thingie that goes up and down. that one is super evil.



blauSamstag
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02 Jul 2015, 7:40 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
Dillogic wrote:
I can speak of Oz. They didn't ban gunz, rather removed "assault weapons" from general use. England did similar, but also with handguns....

Did either nation use U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein's definition of "assault weapon"? You know, black instead of some other color, handles attached to it, and some ... (duh-duh-DUH) ... plastic parts?!? Any edu-mah-cated individual knows that those features spell DANGER. :lol:


Lets be serious here. I don't care for Feinstein either, but we both know that she probably sat down with a list of guns she wanted to ban and looked for similarities between them.

And it's normal in legislation to find ways of making sure that your wording covers what you want it to without having to just make a list of specific makes and models.



AspieUtah
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02 Jul 2015, 7:45 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
...it's normal in legislation to find ways of making sure that your wording covers what you want it to without having to just make a list of specific makes and models.

You just described the futility of even trying to do so. But, I don't believe she is an idiot. You don't get to be a U.S. senator without having some smarts. She knew what she was doing. And, her ban held ... until it expired and nobody wanted a repeat of the 1994 Republican Revolution. Well, nobody but U.S. President George W. Bush of all people. Go figure.


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02 Jul 2015, 8:03 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
...it's normal in legislation to find ways of making sure that your wording covers what you want it to without having to just make a list of specific makes and models.

You just described the futility of even trying to do so. But, I don't believe she is an idiot. You don't get to be a U.S. senator without having some smarts. She knew what she was doing. And, her ban held ... until it expired and nobody wanted a repeat of the 1994 Republican Revolution. Well, nobody but U.S. President George W. Bush of all people. Go figure.


there was probably some touchy-feely liberalism in there too.

We are all aware that every product has a visual design that is intended to send certain messages, and her concept of "assault weapons" has several visual cues that we are all aware of.

People see a walnut stock and think "hunting".

People see an all-black weapon with snazzy grips and they think "For spraying bullets at human targets".

Frankly i don't even know what "assault rifle" means. A Garand M1 with a bayonet was clearly designed for assaulting, right?

Didn't Lee Harvey Oswald, or whoever he was a patsy for (if you buy that nonsense), use a bolt-action rifle?



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02 Jul 2015, 8:06 pm

And this is off topic, but you're aware that although i have never owned a firearm, I believe that having an appreciation for kickass awesome guns is an adequate reason for a responsible adult to own all the guns they feel like owning. Provided that they aren't easily accessed by people who aren't responsible adults.



AspieUtah
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02 Jul 2015, 8:15 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
And this is off topic, but you're aware that although i have never owned a firearm, I believe that having an appreciation for kickass awesome guns is an adequate reason for a responsible adult to own all the guns they feel like owning. Provided that they aren't easily accessed by people who aren't responsible adults.

As you know about our state laws, restricted access to firearms isn't required by law in most cases. But, I still keep mine in a locked cabinet built for rifles. Since I have "just two" firearms, it leaves me quite a bit of room for all the related things one needs for their feeding and training all in one spot. Besides it keeps wandering hands from them, too. I hate it when my stuff gets fingerprints, especially by others (OCPD).


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eric76
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05 Jul 2015, 12:55 pm

quiet_dove wrote:
eric76 wrote:
quiet_dove wrote:
eric76 wrote:
quiet_dove wrote:
eric76 wrote:
quiet_dove wrote:
What I don't understand is why so many conservatives, who themselves are on welfare (since it's been found that "Red States" are "Welfare Queen" states) tend to vote for politicians who want to slash the welfare budget. Do they really not realize that the politicians they're voting for want to take money away from them? It really seems like they have a huge cognitive disconnect there.


So to your thinking, you should vote for whoever promises you the most money?

Are you really trying to pretend that everyone who's on welfare feels as though they're entitled to money? Do you even realize that there are many of us, especially in the autism/Asperger's community, who simply cannot work a full-time job, and who, therefore, genuinely need welfare? Or are you too damned greedy and selfish to be able to care about us?


I'm not opposed to welfare for those who genuinely need it. The problem is that it has been greatly overextended. If you genuinely need welfare to live, then you should be unhappy with the sheer number of freeloaders who could work but who don't. They are likely costing you much more than Republicans.

Can you prove that there are more of those freeloaders than there are Republicans on welfare? Because there are literally millions of Republicans on welfare. According to Pew Research, "17% [of Republicans] say they or someone in their household has benefitted from the food stamp program." And, seeing as there are currently 321 million people living in this country, 39% of whom are registered Republicans, that means that there are about 125 million Republicans. And 17% of 125 million is about 21 million.

So, with that said, your task right now is to prove that there are more than 21 million people freeloading off of welfare. Can you do that? Or will you admit that you were lying?


Honest people do NOT accuse others of lying for the sake of their argument. Now go away and leave the adults alone.

Are you really trying to claim that it's wrong (and somehow dishonest) for anyone to even claim that you're lying? That makes zero sense at all. Seems to me like you just don't want to have to admit that you were lying.

And how am I the childish one here? You're basically stomping your feet and pouting right now just because I proved you wrong.


For what it's worth, a lie is when one intentionally tells a falsehood. There is noting subjective about it.

In the case of welfare and how many are on it who shouldn't be on it, there are, to my knowledge, no comprehensive statistics available about the exact makeup of those on welfare so we have to make a judgment call based one limited information. Furthermore, the boundaries are somewhat subjective.

Where I would draw the boundaries, there are far more people on welfare who shouldn't be on welfare than should be.

For you to call that a lie shows only your own ignorance and lack of understanding of the most basic terms of language.



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05 Jul 2015, 5:56 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
People see a walnut stock and think "hunting".

The M-1 (rifle and carbine), M-14, and other military weapons from a few generations ago had walnut (and other wood) stocks. Where long range and/or penetration are needed the M-1 rifle (Garand) and M-14 still outperform the M-16/AR-15. The M-16 family replaced the older .30 caliber rifles because warfare tactics changed with WW2. That aside, I personally don't give a s**t what uninformed people think when they see a firearm of any kind. I'll be happy to educate those open to it but I won't pacify or pander to those who are not.

Quote:
People see an all-black weapon with snazzy grips and they think "For spraying bullets at human targets".
Then they would be wrong. Neither a semi-auto or select fire carbine are not sustained fire weapons for spraying bullets.
Only a true machinegun that feeds from a belt and has the ability for quick barrel changes in the field are practical for sustained fire. The true assault rifle does have full about or 3-shot burst capability is not at all suitable for sustained fire.

Examples of machineguns:


Quote:
Frankly i don't even know what "assault rifle" means. A Garand M1 with a bayonet was clearly designed for assaulting, right?

There is both a technical and legal definition. The technical definition is by capability and features whereas the legal definition is whatever lawmakers can get away with.
An AR-15 or civilian legal AK-47 or AK-74 (by any name) are not assault weapons since they lack full auto capability.

Quote:
Didn't Lee Harvey Oswald, or whoever he was a patsy for (if you buy that nonsense), use a bolt-action rifle?

The rifle recovered was an old 6.5mm Italian Carcano M91/38 with a cheap scope mounted on it. A skilled rifleman could use a rifle like that to greater affect than an unskilled rifleman with an AR-15. It becomes a matter of tactics.


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blauSamstag
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05 Jul 2015, 6:02 pm

I didn't mean to give the impression that people have a rational concept of what guns are scary.

And yeah, automatic weapons exist because most soldiers aren't exactly marksmen.



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05 Jul 2015, 6:11 pm

Raptor wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
People see a walnut stock and think "hunting".

The M-1 (rifle and carbine), M-14, and other military weapons from a few generations ago had walnut (and other wood) stocks. Where long range and/or penetration are needed the M-1 rifle (Garand) and M-14 still outperform the M-16/AR-15. The M-16 family replaced the older .30 caliber rifles because warfare tactics changed with WW2. That aside, I personally don't give a s**t what uninformed people think when they see a firearm of any kind. I'll be happy to educate those open to it but I won't pacify or pander to those who are not.

Quote:
People see an all-black weapon with snazzy grips and they think "For spraying bullets at human targets".
Then they would be wrong. Neither a semi-auto or select fire carbine are not sustained fire weapons for spraying bullets.
Only a true machinegun that feeds from a belt and has the ability for quick barrel changes in the field are practical for sustained fire. The true assault rifle does have full about or 3-shot burst capability is not at all suitable for sustained fire.

Examples of machineguns:


Quote:
Frankly i don't even know what "assault rifle" means. A Garand M1 with a bayonet was clearly designed for assaulting, right?

There is both a technical and legal definition. The technical definition is by capability and features whereas the legal definition is whatever lawmakers can get away with.
An AR-15 or civilian legal AK-47 or AK-74 (by any name) are not assault weapons since they lack full auto capability.

Quote:
Didn't Lee Harvey Oswald, or whoever he was a patsy for (if you buy that nonsense), use a bolt-action rifle?

The rifle recovered was an old 6.5mm Italian Carcano M91/38 with a cheap scope mounted on it. A skilled rifleman could use a rifle like that to greater affect than an unskilled rifleman with an AR-15. It becomes a matter of tactics.

Go play with your guns...



AspieUtah
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05 Jul 2015, 6:14 pm

pcuser wrote:
Go play with your guns...

Did he touch a nerve?


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05 Jul 2015, 6:16 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
pcuser wrote:
Go play with your guns...

Did he touch a nerve?

No, I'm simply tired of his wasting time showing off his arsenal...
What nerve would that be?



AspieUtah
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05 Jul 2015, 6:32 pm

pcuser wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
pcuser wrote:
Go play with your guns...

Did he touch a nerve?

No, I'm simply tired of his wasting time showing off his arsenal...
What nerve would that be?

Apparently, the nerve that clicked through to this topic.


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05 Jul 2015, 7:02 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
pcuser wrote:
Go play with your guns...

Did he touch a nerve?

Apparently so.... :P
pcuser wrote:
No, I'm simply tired of his wasting time showing off his arsenal...

1. Where am I "showing off" my arsenal? Please be specific.
2. Where does it say you are obligated to read what I write even if I am showing off my arsenal?
AspieUtah wrote:
What nerve would that be?

Quote:
Apparently, the nerve that clicked through to this topic.

Well, here's a Butthrt Report Form (BRF) for pcuser to complete and submit to the internet police.
http://nexua.org/niji/butthurt-form/


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05 Jul 2015, 7:24 pm

AspieUtah wrote:
pcuser wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
pcuser wrote:
Go play with your guns...

Did he touch a nerve?

No, I'm simply tired of his wasting time showing off his arsenal...
What nerve would that be?

Apparently, the nerve that clicked through to this topic.

Sorry, no nerve...



pcuser
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05 Jul 2015, 7:31 pm

Raptor wrote:
AspieUtah wrote:
pcuser wrote:
Go play with your guns...

Did he touch a nerve?

Apparently so.... :P
pcuser wrote:
No, I'm simply tired of his wasting time showing off his arsenal...

1. Where am I "showing off" my arsenal? Please be specific.
2. Where does it say you are obligated to read what I write even if I am showing off my arsenal?
AspieUtah wrote:
What nerve would that be?

Quote:
Apparently, the nerve that clicked through to this topic.

Well, here's a Butthrt Report Form (BRF) for pcuser to complete and submit to the internet police.
http://nexua.org/niji/butthurt-form/

Perhaps showing off is not exactly correct. All you talk about is guns and your avatar has Clint aiming a gun in the picture. I'm not obligated to read your nonsense. I skim it because it isn't worth reading in depth and reply if the urge strikes. And no nerve clicked through this topic. You shouldn't take yourself so seriously. I don't...