Why Christianity is so Persistant

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This is nothing more than St. Thomas Aquinas's prime mover argument restated. It's a circular argument It's been debunked for centuries.

[/quote]Just wanted to say I don't require such proof to know that my God exists. [/quote]

That's 100% O.K. for your own personal beliefs. If you're going to try to argue those beliefs to someone else, (especialy to me) you have to have evidence that can be proven or disproven. This is something NO religion can do.

That's a nice thought, and it's good that you could create it here in the image of the thought that was in your mind and breathe life into it by re-creating it on this page.

I have a request though, if you don't mind.

The next time you have any thoughts, instead of creating them here in the IMAGE of what's in your mind, could you pick those actual thoughts out of your brain and send them to me via FedEx so that I can hold your thoughts in my hand, look at them, know they are real, and understand them better?

What's that?

Your thoughts have no physical form?

Well, then I don't believe they exist.

Yet I am willing to make a deal with you.

I will entertain the possibility that your thoughts MIGHT exist, if you will entertain the possibility that my God MIGHT exist.

Ahhhh........... The "God of the Gaps" argument. That which people can't explain is logically the supernatural work of god. This argument, just like your analogy of air that wee can't see ( but we can feel it and compress it and otherwise MEASURE it) is equaly as lame. Thoughts CAN be quantified and measured by science.; They DO have a physical form (as electromagnetic impulses) and thus exist in the natural world.
The question of God's existence is outside the boundaries of scientific discovery. A god MIGHT exist but there are no proofs. THE QUESTION OF GOD'S EXISTENCE IS UNANSWERABLE. PERIOD. Philosophers who are MUCH MUCH smarter than you have devoted a lifetime to PROVING god's existence and failed. You either accept it on FAITH or you don't. I don't and never will. The question of the meaning of life is too important to be answered by an ancient, plagerised book of mythology.

Well thats a good question and you have not. I belive people should treat eachother as they wish to be treated. That All people regardless of sex,race or religion should be treated respectfully. I do not belive that people should have to be beaten over the head with the stick of religon just to be nice to oneanther. most of the religons people I know only help people becuse their religion tells them to.I actually like helping people it makes me feel good .. I belive the Bible is a very old book probally based on an oral tradetion from before there was even writting that helped teach morals and ethics to people down the ages as other anceint texts of other religions are. I do not belive it literally. I belive in science and evolution.

Very well. Thoughts are energy and energy has mass.

Where did all the energy and mass in the universe come from in the first place? Was it always there? How do YOU explain eternity?

If you can have a thought that you've never had before, you have created something from nothing, even though it ultimately takes the forum of electromagnetic energy.

So why can't God have created the universe in a similar fashion?

So Who created God was he always there?I will agree that if there was a God he could have by definition but it's a big if. Does there have to be a God invovled at all?
Eternity has yet to be fully explianed mayby in the future it will. As to my explainion a very long time

There was a period a couple of years ago where I tried to think of the answer to: 'What was there before God, like just 1 second.' But I got too many headaches and gave up. Maybe time is cyclical?

It could be that and yet it has an ending.

Didymus, this is getting tireing because already posted a response to your "something from nothing argument" this is the prime mover argument and it is invalid because it pre-suposes god's existance without prior proof. You can simply substitute the word "god" for anything else. I did this in my fist post on this subject. I claimed the universe was created by my omnipotent sphincter and it has the power to create any illusion it want's to. My statement that my sphincter created the universe is equally valid as saying god created it.
Where did all the mass and energy in the universe come from?? Stephan Hawking can't answer that, and I won't pretend to know. IT is far more honest to admit we don't understand than to substitute truth with mythology.
You are obviously philosophicaly ill-educated. I'm bored with this conversation.

Yes this seems to go round and round with no end.



Must be using it's powers of illusion to keep the smell down

Scrapheap wrote: Where did all the mass and energy in the universe come from?? Stephan Hawking can't answer that, and I won't pretend to know. IT is far more honest to admit we don't understand than to substitute truth with mythology.
You are obviously philosophicaly ill-educated. I'm bored with this conversation.

How can you assert that what you're proposing is truth and that what the other guy is proposing is mythology? You just admitted that you don't know where matter originated. Then you don't know if there is something out there, a being, who created it.
You are calling evolutionary mythology "truth", then. There is not one shred of hard, scientific evidence that one creature evolved into another. Adaptations are not evolution. Monkey and man are different just as a dog and horse, pebble and mountain. Evolution must be taken on faith. It is a belief system based on theories and guesses that for the most part are huge stretches of the imagination requiring more time and chance than is even remotely possible. Just because you add a billion years or so that doesn't change one thing into another. It's really a ridiculous assertion but if one wants to believe it then at least be honest and claim it for what it is; a religion.

I read that Noah lived to be 900 (nine hundred!) years old.

Yeah, every word in that piece of pulp fiction is TOTALLY TRUE!

Yes, it's really a devastating blow to the evolutionists that not one single transitional fossil or vestigial organ has been discovered.

Do you belive in contiental drift Earth has changed by a measurale amout over the last billion years.Even since the last Ice age were I sit now was under over a mile of ice. So things do change and change drasticly.Then there is coal once plant life now fuel. Along the lines of evolution there are things we don't know but there is evidence of what the next logical step was Yes there are gaps in this but it's supported by evidence not pure theory.

Evolution is making comparisons between the environment and its organisms. We have many different environments here on earth, desert, ocean, forests, etc. Thus, we have many different comparisons which we can make to form the theory of evolution. We do not see fish living in the desert, nor camels living in the ocean. Lungs do not operate underwater, and gills do not operate on land, yet we see creatures with lungs living in the water. Yes evolution does have gaps, but ID is only a gap. There are no comparisons on which we judge the soundness of ID.

This is evolution:

som-times peo-le misunder-tand the deba-e between evol-tion and intell-gent des-gn.

This is ID:

--------------- --------- ------ --------- ------ ------- ------------ ------ ------------ -------

In the first instance we can reasonably guess what the sentence is saying, because we have something to compare it to, the human language. In the second instance, there is nothing to compare it to, thus we can make no judgement on what it says.

Adaptation is evolution. While it is not the whole theory of evolution, it is at least half of it. And while, yes, there has not been a huge amout of fossils discovered that show all of the links between species evolving, there have been some (dinosaurs with feathers and wings, the new fossil they discovered that was possibly the first fish with the ability to walk on land and leave water). Also, the explosion of the different breads of dogs proves that a species can be morphed. While it is a forced a change, it proves that species can evolve to fit certain specialties through selective breeding.

Also, we must remember how difficult it is for something to become fossilized. It must die in a very very specific place in very very specific conditions. Trillions of organisms have lived on earth (something even ID does not deny), yet I doubt that we even have discovered a million complete fossils. Even in todays time it is almost impossible to go into the woods and discover the bones of a bear or mountain lion, yet we all recognize that there are thousands of these creatures walking around. Also, how many skeletons of whales do we see people finding in the ocean?

Yes, it is true that neither ID nor evolution can be proved conclusively at this time, but there is some evidence for evolution, there is none for ID.