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Why do some people feel the need to denigrate the religious?

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shlaifu
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13 Dec 2017, 3:50 pm

The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
I have noticed that people are more eager to denigrate Christians than other religions. Why is that?

Is it because Christians = establishment?

christian belief doesn't play a major role in decision making - except for a handful of topics, relating to death- abortion, assisted dying


I don't think you need to be religious to dislike abortion. If someone got pregnant, it is their own fault. That child is already alive. Have you seen pictures from abortion clinics? Its horrible! Would you like to have been killed prematurely, if you parents didn't feel like having a child?

The only point in my mind where there is even a debate about abortion is if the person was raped. And even then, i still dislike the idea. Give the baby up for adoption if you need to. Just don't rob it of its chance to live.



I'm not saying that one has to be Christian to be against abortion - but that this is one of the topics related to dying, in which religiosity play a role in the debate.
In contrast to, say automation. Or zoning laws. No one in his right mind would turn towards a holy book to find answers for zoning laws.
... so.... for the legal framework of our lives -the thing governments deal with-, religion barely plays a role.
It is therefore fair to say, most first world countries are not really Christian. Only parts of their population.
But decisions are being made on economic grounds, every day. Which is something we can all agree on, sort of: more wealth is better.
Sadly, that also implies that there is barely any valid argument against economic interests.
Not even health and environmental concerns. Let alone religious feelings.

I think free market rationale in conjunction with technology has enabled anyone to do anything in the name of profit. And there's not really a cogent counternarrative.


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shlaifu
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13 Dec 2017, 4:15 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Xenophobia or racism isn't always exclusive to religion or religious people. Why not?

I do find some things wrong about your comments (the part about Christianity being the only religion to go against science), also just because Christianity doesn't have an active role in most government decisions, that doesn't mean that western societies should forget that it had influenced it historically and played a role in it's formation. It's heritage, both the good and bad parts of it.


xenophobia and racism are based in tribalism. A religious congregation is only one form of tribe. Your family is a smaller tribe, a nation is a larger tribe. Historically, it has been useful to be weary of outsiders - a functioning policeforce is a relatively new invention, and so is a functioning society.
Racism has had a brief push by ideologues abusing science, mainly in the first half of the 20th century, - now, science has disproven major differences between races, but the tribalist-habit of "us versus them" remains.

and sure, Christianity is a historical part of western society. So is greek and roman antiquity, and in the US, native American culture. And I do agree that one should learn all about that and then sort for oneself the good from the bad.
History is not to be atudied so it will not be repeated - history is there to be atudied to learn about the contingencies of our lives today.
Things are, because they happened to happen that way - understanding that frees one up to change direction.


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The Musings Of The Lost
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14 Dec 2017, 1:33 am

shlaifu wrote:
The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
I have noticed that people are more eager to denigrate Christians than other religions. Why is that?

Is it because Christians = establishment?

christian belief doesn't play a major role in decision making - except for a handful of topics, relating to death- abortion, assisted dying


I don't think you need to be religious to dislike abortion. If someone got pregnant, it is their own fault. That child is already alive. Have you seen pictures from abortion clinics? Its horrible! Would you like to have been killed prematurely, if you parents didn't feel like having a child?

The only point in my mind where there is even a debate about abortion is if the person was raped. And even then, i still dislike the idea. Give the baby up for adoption if you need to. Just don't rob it of its chance to live.



I'm not saying that one has to be Christian to be against abortion - but that this is one of the topics related to dying, in which religiosity play a role in the debate.
In contrast to, say automation. Or zoning laws. No one in his right mind would turn towards a holy book to find answers for zoning laws.
... so.... for the legal framework of our lives -the thing governments deal with-, religion barely plays a role.
It is therefore fair to say, most first world countries are not really Christian. Only parts of their population.
But decisions are being made on economic grounds, every day. Which is something we can all agree on, sort of: more wealth is better.
Sadly, that also implies that there is barely any valid argument against economic interests.
Not even health and environmental concerns. Let alone religious feelings.

I think free market rationale in conjunction with technology has enabled anyone to do anything in the name of profit. And there's not really a cogent counternarrative.


I didn't say christian, I said religious.
:D


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15 Jan 2018, 10:29 am

Michael829 wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
Michael829 wrote:

...and, in some instances, used it as an opportunity to again exhibit their uncalled-for and inappropriate attack-behavior. So that's their best?

Michael829


Are there appropriate times to point out the failings or inappropriate thinking of a religion?

Are all religions good?

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DL



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15 Jan 2018, 10:34 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
I have noticed that people are more eager to denigrate Christians than other religions. Why is that?

Is it because Christians = establishment?


I do not think so.

I think it cause moral people will always speak against immoral creeds and their Gods.

Genocidal pricks like Hitler and Yahweh ahoulod always have many speaking against their ways.

Right?

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15 Jan 2018, 11:41 am

The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
Like some people seem to seek out religious people just to tell them they are wrong, they are idiots etc.
On the flipside there are some religious people who do the same to those of other religions or no religion at all.
I do think these people are just a loud, annoying minority in both sides.
Why do you think they do this? I see no purpose in it. Why can't people just be decent to each other, in your opinion?


A lot of atheists have been raised by religious parents who rely on emotional manipulation and pseudo-arguments. It's largely retaliation.


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The Musings Of The Lost
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15 Jan 2018, 11:50 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
Like some people seem to seek out religious people just to tell them they are wrong, they are idiots etc.
On the flipside there are some religious people who do the same to those of other religions or no religion at all.
I do think these people are just a loud, annoying minority in both sides.
Why do you think they do this? I see no purpose in it. Why can't people just be decent to each other, in your opinion?


A lot of atheists have been raised by religious parents who rely on emotional manipulation and pseudo-arguments. It's largely retaliation.


In my own experience this seems to be very common in America and nearly nowhere else.
What I don't understand behind this reasoning is why not fight to have more freedom of beleif for children to allow them to decide, or just fix the beleifs of americas 'christians' many of whom seem ro have never read the bible, instead of just deciding all religion is horrible everywhere


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GnosticBishop
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15 Jan 2018, 12:04 pm

The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
Like some people seem to seek out religious people just to tell them they are wrong, they are idiots etc.
On the flipside there are some religious people who do the same to those of other religions or no religion at all.
I do think these people are just a loud, annoying minority in both sides.
Why do you think they do this? I see no purpose in it. Why can't people just be decent to each other, in your opinion?


A lot of atheists have been raised by religious parents who rely on emotional manipulation and pseudo-arguments. It's largely retaliation.


In my own experience this seems to be very common in America and nearly nowhere else.
What I don't understand behind this reasoning is why not fight to have more freedom of beleif for children to allow them to decide, or just fix the beleifs of americas 'christians' many of whom seem ro have never read the bible, instead of just deciding all religion is horrible everywhere


It seems that freedom of religion is more important to us than freedom from the immoral brain damaging practices that religions do to children.

I think our priorities are skewed the wrong way.

Regards
DL



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15 Jan 2018, 12:05 pm

My biological father is a religious nut. I seldom speak to him nowadays because he relies on emotional manipulation, conspiracy theories and pseudo-arguments.

One thing that he often says is "God is love. People who hate god have no love in them." In other words, he's a nauseating fruitcake.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Glurge

Reality Check: When you are in love, it is just like being addicted to a drug on a chemical level. That's actually a scientifically proven fact.

Love helps us cope with harsh realities, but it should not be used as a replacement for reality. You should always use logic and observation to determine what is and isn't real. Love helps us cope with harsh realities when they start to feel overwhelming.

My biological father is a former hippie who later became a born-again Christian. I find that hilarious, given that the hippies were a disgrace to the left. Born-again Christian rhetoric is largely repackaged hippie rhetoric.


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The Musings Of The Lost
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15 Jan 2018, 12:07 pm

GnosticBishop wrote:
The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
Like some people seem to seek out religious people just to tell them they are wrong, they are idiots etc.
On the flipside there are some religious people who do the same to those of other religions or no religion at all.
I do think these people are just a loud, annoying minority in both sides.
Why do you think they do this? I see no purpose in it. Why can't people just be decent to each other, in your opinion?


A lot of atheists have been raised by religious parents who rely on emotional manipulation and pseudo-arguments. It's largely retaliation.


In my own experience this seems to be very common in America and nearly nowhere else.
What I don't understand behind this reasoning is why not fight to have more freedom of beleif for children to allow them to decide, or just fix the beleifs of americas 'christians' many of whom seem ro have never read the bible, instead of just deciding all religion is horrible everywhere


It seems that freedom of religion is more important to us than freedom from the immoral brain damaging practices that religions do to children.

I think our priorities are skewed the wrong way.

Regards
DL


Immoral and brain damaging? Really?
Please stop trolling gnostic, no one here appreciates it.


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The Musings Of The Lost
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15 Jan 2018, 12:09 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
My biological father is a religious nut. I seldom speak to him nowadays because he relies on emotional manipulation, conspiracy theories and pseudo-arguments.

One thing that he often says is "God is love. People who hate god have no love in them." In other words, he's a nauseating fruitcake.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Glurge

Reality Check: When you are in love, it is just like being addicted to a drug on a chemical level. That's actually a scientifically proven fact.

Love helps us cope with harsh realities, but it should not be used as a replacement for reality. You should always use logic and observation to determine what is and isn't real. Love helps us cope with harsh realities when they start to feel overwhelming.

My biological father is a former hippie who later became a born-again Christian. I find that hilarious, given that the hippies were a disgrace to the left. Born-again Christian rhetoric is largely repackaged hippie rhetoric.

I can see how that would be annoying. Again, never met anyone outside america like that.

At a guess I would say its because the people who founded america were so devoutely religious and one of they main reasons they left is because they felt the church was too tolerant of others. It was a country founded on extremists, and the beleifs were then manipulated by politicians and now half of them don't have a semblance of what actual christianity looks like


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techstepgenr8tion
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15 Jan 2018, 12:11 pm

The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
What I don't understand behind this reasoning is why not fight to have more freedom of beleif for children to allow them to decide, or just fix the beleifs of americas 'christians' many of whom seem ro have never read the bible, instead of just deciding all religion is horrible everywhere

We seem to have such a hands-off approach on civics and morality that most parents can't think of a viable alternative for their children. To some extent yes, I'd blame fundamentalists for this problem but I equally think that the run on freedom from responsibility and toward rights uber alis has created no alternative structures to answer those needs and the public schools don't cut it. This is part of why plenty of atheists I know are happy to send their children to PSR, or take them to church, and then tell them - later in life - that none of it is literally true. That is they want their children to know the culture they're growing up in, its founding myths, and they want them to be able to know the moral ropes.


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15 Jan 2018, 12:15 pm

The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
GnosticBishop wrote:
The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
Like some people seem to seek out religious people just to tell them they are wrong, they are idiots etc.
On the flipside there are some religious people who do the same to those of other religions or no religion at all.
I do think these people are just a loud, annoying minority in both sides.
Why do you think they do this? I see no purpose in it. Why can't people just be decent to each other, in your opinion?


A lot of atheists have been raised by religious parents who rely on emotional manipulation and pseudo-arguments. It's largely retaliation.


In my own experience this seems to be very common in America and nearly nowhere else.
What I don't understand behind this reasoning is why not fight to have more freedom of beleif for children to allow them to decide, or just fix the beleifs of americas 'christians' many of whom seem ro have never read the bible, instead of just deciding all religion is horrible everywhere


It seems that freedom of religion is more important to us than freedom from the immoral brain damaging practices that religions do to children.

I think our priorities are skewed the wrong way.

Regards
DL


Immoral and brain damaging? Really?
Please stop trolling gnostic, no one here appreciates it.


Truth is trolling to fools.

Only a brain dead fool would not see supernatural belief as damaging to a mind.

Are you in that league buddy?

Regards
DL



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15 Jan 2018, 3:49 pm

The Musings Of The Lost wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
My biological father is a religious nut. I seldom speak to him nowadays because he relies on emotional manipulation, conspiracy theories and pseudo-arguments.

One thing that he often says is "God is love. People who hate god have no love in them." In other words, he's a nauseating fruitcake.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Glurge

Reality Check: When you are in love, it is just like being addicted to a drug on a chemical level. That's actually a scientifically proven fact.

Love helps us cope with harsh realities, but it should not be used as a replacement for reality. You should always use logic and observation to determine what is and isn't real. Love helps us cope with harsh realities when they start to feel overwhelming.

My biological father is a former hippie who later became a born-again Christian. I find that hilarious, given that the hippies were a disgrace to the left. Born-again Christian rhetoric is largely repackaged hippie rhetoric.

I can see how that would be annoying. Again, never met anyone outside america like that.

At a guess I would say its because the people who founded america were so devoutely religious and one of they main reasons they left is because they felt the church was too tolerant of others. It was a country founded on extremists, and the beleifs were then manipulated by politicians and now half of them don't have a semblance of what actual christianity looks like


I can see that "American guilt" is a thing.