Nobody interested in the Russia-Ukraine conflict?

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magz
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08 Oct 2022, 2:55 pm

It's true, NATO members do supply Ukraine.
But if Ukrainians weren't so determined to defend themselves, no one would give a damn about helping them. If they collapsed like Afghan government, we'd just strenghten our own borders and host some refugees.

On the other hand, if NATO really entered...

They say radioactive dust over Poland would trigger art 5. The response they announce is conventional.

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magz
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08 Oct 2022, 3:03 pm

By the way, I just got an announcement that my kids' school is appointed a potassium iodine distribution center in case of radioactive pollution. Not active until something really happens but preparations for this possibility are real here.

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magz
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08 Oct 2022, 3:06 pm

The bridge from satellite:

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goldfish21
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08 Oct 2022, 3:27 pm

^Looks like they need to hit it again a couple more times to finish the job. Hope they do.

And yes, of course, Ukrainian resolve is critical to their success.

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magz
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10 Oct 2022, 3:03 am

goldfish21 wrote:

^Looks like they need to hit it again a couple more times to finish the job. Hope they do.

It will be hard, officially Ukrainians don't have weapons capable of it (maybe Neptunes would do but they would need to be lanuched from closer distance than nearest Ukrainian-controlled territory) and Russians are paranoid about protecting the bridge, which has been well tested with many drone missions.
That said - somehow they managed. Apparently, it was a truck full of explosives on a suicide mission. Driving from Russian territory. Synchronized with a train full of fuel.
A serious special forces job.

And the response is a massive shelling of cities all over Ukraine. 75 launches this morning, possibly counting.
We need to send more anti-aircraft and anti-missile systems.

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Worthless
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10 Oct 2022, 5:49 am

magz wrote:

goldfish21 wrote:

^Looks like they need to hit it again a couple more times to finish the job. Hope they do.

We definitely need to be providing significantly more AA systems, but would that help with shelling? I thought the best defense against shelling was to eliminate the artillery.

We also need to be ramping up ALL of our defense production. It takes time to ramp up production and who know where things go from here. I have also thought for years that it is not only wasteful, but foolish how eager we are to scrap our "obsolete" equipment. The US has plenty of space in the south west to have far larger boneyard storage of phased out systems. Systems which we could now be servicing and sending in mass to Ukraine. After all, the soviets aren't using modern equipment. More and more russia is pulling T-62 MBTs out of storage and thrusting them into combat.

magz
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10 Oct 2022, 6:03 am

Worthless wrote:

We definitely need to be providing significantly more AA systems, but would that help with shelling? I thought the best defense against shelling was to eliminate the artillery.

That's what Ukrainians are asking for, too. Long-range precision artillery.
But USA is slow in giving it to them, for fear of 1) escalation, 2) the systems getting captured by Russia.
And 1) is meaningful because it would mean firing at targets deep within Russian and Belarussian territory.

Worthless wrote:

We also need to be ramping up ALL of our defense production.

Absolutely!

Worthless wrote:

It takes time to ramp up production and who know where things go from here. I have also thought for years that it is not only wasteful, but foolish how eager we are to scrap our "obsolete" equipment. The US has plenty of space in the south west to have far larger boneyard storage of phased out systems. Systems which we could now be servicing and sending in mass to Ukraine. After all, the soviets aren't using modern equipment. More and more russia is pulling T-62 MBTs out of storage and thrusting them into combat.

Guess where all the Polish T-72s went

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Tim_Tex
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10 Oct 2022, 6:10 am

Not war-related, but any info on the whereabouts and condition of Alexei Navalny?

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Worthless
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10 Oct 2022, 6:16 am

Yeah, the HIMARS have been crucial in turning the tide and laying the ground for the recent liberation of large areas, despite the fact that there are very few of them. The US is going to double production, but that seems like WAY too little given how limited the production is currently. I would think that seeing what they can do on the battlefield, they would be striving to increasing production by at least a factor of ten.

I've been thinking for about a year now that wee need to be supplying Ukraine with advanced AA systems.

We also need to be vastly increasing our Electronic Warfare capability and supplying & training Ukraine in EW. We should be wiping the floor with russia when it comes to EW.

I am glad that Poland has sent T-72s and I find it funny that despite being "obsolete" they are more modern and more advanced than many of the russian tanks.

magz
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10 Oct 2022, 6:30 am

Worthless wrote:

I've been thinking for about a year now that wee need to be supplying Ukraine with advanced AA systems.

A year? That would mean you were interested in the topic well before it hit headlines.

Worthless wrote:

We also need to be vastly increasing our Electronic Warfare capability and supplying & training Ukraine in EW. We should be wiping the floor with russia when it comes to EW.

What is the current "state of art" in EW?

Worthless wrote:

I am glad that Poland has sent T-72s and I find it funny that despite being "obsolete" they are more modern and more advanced than many of the russian tanks.

Many were modernized and all still in use. We depleted our own capabilities. But I agree that these tanks are doing much more good to safety of Poland when being used by Ukrainians than they would be standing in garages in Poland.

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Worthless
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10 Oct 2022, 6:49 am

magz wrote:

Worthless wrote:

I've been thinking for about a year now that wee need to be supplying Ukraine with advanced AA systems.

A year? That would mean you were interested in the topic well before it hit headlines.

Worthless wrote:

We also need to be vastly increasing our Electronic Warfare capability and supplying & training Ukraine in EW. We should be wiping the floor with russia when it comes to EW.

What is the current "state of art" in EW?

Worthless wrote:

I am glad that Poland has sent T-72s and I find it funny that despite being "obsolete" they are more modern and more advanced than many of the russian tanks.

Yes. I keep abrest of a lot of things that the average person is ignorant of.

I don't know what the current state of the art in EW is, but I do know that the US has deficiencies, such as having retired various EW aircraft without real replacements for their rolls. Once again, instead of sending them to a boneyard for storage, they were scapped.

Exactly, make russia hemorage badly enough and you won't need to fight them in Poland.

ASPartOfMe
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10 Oct 2022, 8:10 am

Russian missiles strike Kyiv as Putin fumes over damaged Crimea bridge

Quote:

Russia launched a lethal wave of missile and drone strikes Monday on cities across Ukraine in what Russian President Vladimir Putin said was punishment for the partial destruction of a key bridge connecting his country to occupied Crimea.

Missiles slammed into a park and hit near a university in the heart of the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv, during morning rush hour in a city that has only recently started functioning like something close to its pre-war normal. At least eight people were killed and 24 were injured in the most ferocious strikes on the capital since the first days of the Russian invasion, which began more than seven months ago.

One missile just missed a glass-bottomed pedestrian bridge in the city centre, while another just missed a children’s playground. The city’s main railway station also sustained minor damage.

The Ukrainian military said that 83 missiles had been fired at the country on Monday, 43 of which were shot down by the country’s air defences. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said “dozens” of the attacks involved Iranian-made Shahed kamikaze drones.

Mr. Zelensky said he would take part in a call with leaders of the Group of Seven Western democracies on Tuesday, during which he is expected to ask for more advanced air defence systems.

Civilian infrastructure was a key Russian target on Monday, as it often has been in recent weeks. The power supply was knocked out in major cities including Kharkiv and Lviv.

Explosions were also reported in the cities of Zaporizhzhia, in the south of the country, Dnipro and Kremenchuk, in the centre, and in Ternopil and Zhytomyr in the west. Nationwide, at least 10 people were killed and 60 were injured in the attacks – a toll that was expected to rise.

Mr. Zelensky said the Russian barrage had two objectives – to destroy Ukraine’s energy grid, and to kill as many people as possible. “

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MaxE
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10 Oct 2022, 8:19 am

Worthless wrote:

I don't know what the current state of the art in EW is, but I do know that the US has deficiencies, such as having retired various EW aircraft without real replacements for their rolls. Once again, instead of sending them to a boneyard for storage, they were scapped.

I think it safe to assume that in the area of EW, the USA has everything it needs. I don't subscribe to any conspiracy theories, but 9/11 was a godsend that guaranteed that the military would never lack for however much funding they need to advance all their technology to the state of the art and beyond. Of course we don't know the details as anybody who did could only tell you if committed to shooting you after.

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10 Oct 2022, 11:51 am

MaxE wrote:

Worthless wrote:

9/11 marked a refocusing on a new threat. It was the part two if you will of the shift from cold war mentality to fighting insurgencies and asymmetrical warfare. Our focus is I believe starting to shift now.

The type of EW needed for fighting the talaban is not the same as needed for fighting against s large military.

We had multiple mission specific EW attack aircraft, but we haven't really been replacing them as we have been retying those airframes. The US does have some EW deficiencies.

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10 Oct 2022, 12:13 pm

NATO providing billions of dollars of aide …… Well , What is , being presented by US media is that USA by itself in
Nearing 8 billions dollars in military side, Imagine then the added cost of additional weapons by the other NATO Allie’s sending their own support . It is sad to think how much that same monies could have helped various peoples
Had there been no War. It is almost painful to dwell on .

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magz
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10 Oct 2022, 12:30 pm

Jakki wrote:

And how much damage would have not been done if Russia did not attack Ukraine. How many people would not have died. How much of various resources we'll need to invest to rebuild Ukraine. And we keep investing to help them keep standing.
But you know - freedom for Ukrainians and rule-based world order for the rest are worth it. They are worth many more cold winters.

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