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Our New President - President Donald Trump

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jrjones9933
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16 Mar 2017, 8:26 pm

The Economics of healthcare get really complicated. Normal 301 supply and demand doesn't work here, for one simple reason. Your choice becomes, for what value of X do these two become equal: $X = continued life?

Now, in this forum, I expect a lot of interesting answers. However, I also expect most people here to understand that for most people out there, X approaches infinity. Normal supply and demand doesn't work here, for a variety of reasons, but that one is nice and simple.


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16 Mar 2017, 10:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Yes, I know. I was just taking a dig at the bird/Zodiac Killer, so I meant no offense.

Just admitted to trolling right there.


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16 Mar 2017, 10:12 pm

cutting the science (america's tour de force) budget is making america great again?



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16 Mar 2017, 10:13 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Raptor wrote:

There's a reason you're called a troll, and it's never once been because you were correct about anything. :wink:

Well, if he were called a troll every time he was correct, he'd be called a troll, everyday.

How many dead bodies, then, would you step over to get into the emergency room? If I recall correctly, on healthcare you are with Raptor in the 'let them die' camp.

It's die konzentrationslager. :P


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16 Mar 2017, 10:17 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
adifferentname wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Raptor wrote:

There's a reason you're called a troll, and it's never once been because you were correct about anything. :wink:

Well, if he were called a troll every time he was correct, he'd be called a troll, everyday.

The reason he is called a troll is to dismiss his arguments absent the burden of discovering which is true.

Exactly!!

That label is always taken as a compliment. :twisted:


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17 Mar 2017, 8:07 am

jrjones9933 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
jrjones9933 wrote:
How many dead bodies, then, would you step over to get into the emergency room? If I recall correctly, on healthcare you are with Raptor in the 'let them die' camp.

I don't think I've ever made a comment regarding healthcare----except to say that I felt making it mandatory, was BEYOND ludicrous----because I don't have it, and don't know enough about it.

Ah. In that case, would you be one of the them who are left to die outside the ER under Raptorcare? If so, major respect for your integrity.

Just for clarity, I'll restate my argument. Either:
we pay for basic healthcare for everyone or we let them get it from the ER
we pay for the ER operations or the hospitals go bankrupt
we just let people die outside the ER

I'm in favor of paying less for basic services, but not everyone agrees.

No, I wouldn't have to die outside the E.R., cuz I'm a war-time military veteran, and I can go to the V.A. E.R., or whatever doctor I need, or get surgery, or whatever, and it's free.

I don't agree with everyone having free healthcare----I only agree with people having reduced-cost healthcare, IF they WANT it. I feel that the program should be for the people in-the-middle----like, if someone has Medicaid / Medicare, then they shouldn't have to bother with it; likewise, if someone has healthcare insurance through their job, then they shouldn't have to bother with it (if they don't want to----they can opt for it, if it's cheaper, or whatever); BUT, if someone is working and can't afford healthcare insurance, at all, this program would be for them----which is what I thought the original idea was, and this thing about MAKING people drop their current, satisfying insurance, is ALSO beyond INSANE.




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17 Mar 2017, 8:46 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
I don't agree with everyone having free healthcare----I only agree with people having reduced-cost healthcare, IF they WANT it. I feel that the program should be for the people in-the-middle----like, if someone has Medicaid / Medicare, then they shouldn't have to bother with it; likewise, if someone has healthcare insurance through their job, then they shouldn't have to bother with it (if they don't want to----they can opt for it, if it's cheaper, or whatever); BUT, if someone is working and can't afford healthcare insurance, at all, this program would be for them----which is what I thought the original idea was, and this thing about MAKING people drop their current, satisfying insurance, is ALSO beyond INSANE.


Why can't they just simply do it right for fluck sake. My god it's 2017 and America is still nowhere close to getting this shite together. Absolutely ridiculous. Not to mention appalling.



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17 Mar 2017, 10:16 am

What Campin Cat said makes sense.

I do feel we should have "basic" healthcare for all, though. Especially for catastrophic conditions.



jrjones9933
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17 Mar 2017, 10:23 am

People are overconfident. They consistently expect to beat the odds. Also, people are bad at understanding small probabilities.

If we expect the healthcare system to work, we either have to correct for this predictable irrationality and make people buy insurance, or just insure everyone. That, or we let the bodies pile up outside the ER. Still no straight answer to my question on that issue.


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17 Mar 2017, 10:51 am

Our politicians are stupid about healthcare and dishonest about their real intentions and limitations, they can't advocate for certain things and still be elected to office. There are powerful forces that work against any sort of reform besides just the insurance companies, the insurance companies were heavily involved in crafting Obamacare as one can obviously see why mandating that citizens but private health insurance would be a boon to them.

What were the issues with healthcare? Cost and the pre-existing conditions, there's no way both problems can be addressed at the same time. The mandate is absolute failure as it only raises demand, that can only raise prices with no change in supply. There needs to be some other solution for the 'uninsurable' without it being a dumping ground for the insurance companies, it shouldn't be subsidized on the back's of healthy people that don't want to pay for too expensive healthcare they can't afford to even use.



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17 Mar 2017, 11:34 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
No, I wouldn't have to die outside the E.R., cuz I'm a war-time military veteran, and I can go to the V.A. E.R., or whatever doctor I need, or get surgery, or whatever, and it's free.

I don't agree with everyone having free healthcare----I only agree with people having reduced-cost healthcare, IF they WANT it. I feel that the program should be for the people in-the-middle----like, if someone has Medicaid / Medicare, then they shouldn't have to bother with it; likewise, if someone has healthcare insurance through their job, then they shouldn't have to bother with it (if they don't want to----they can opt for it, if it's cheaper, or whatever); BUT, if someone is working and can't afford healthcare insurance, at all, this program would be for them----which is what I thought the original idea was, and this thing about MAKING people drop their current, satisfying insurance, is ALSO beyond INSANE.
good thing you have free healthcare. not so good that you are being a hypocrite and don't support it for everyone else.



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17 Mar 2017, 4:20 pm

Trump-Care doesn't appear constitutional.

SCOTUS previously ruled on Obamacare that the government cannot mandate you buy health insurance, however, they can tax you.

Trump-Care includes a mandate that you maintain continuous health coverage or be penalized.

This penalty is not a tax; it goes directly to the insurance companies

The Constitution doesn't give the government the power to make such a mandate to buy health insurance.



Last edited by LoveNotHate on 17 Mar 2017, 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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17 Mar 2017, 4:43 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Trump-Care doesn't appear constitutional.

If this is permitted , then the government has unlimited powers.

You must maintain continuous health coverage, or pay a huge non-tax penalty.
You must buy an American-made car, or pay a huge non-tax penalty.
You must go to church on Sunday, or pay a huge non-tax penalty.

You must do X , or pay a huge non-tax penalty.



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17 Mar 2017, 4:53 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Trump-Care doesn't appear constitutional.

If this is permitted , then the government has unlimited powers.

You must maintain continuous health coverage, or pay a huge non-tax penalty.
You must buy an American-made car, or pay a huge non-tax penalty.
You must go to church on Sunday, or pay a huge non-tax penalty.

You must do X , or pay a huge non-tax penalty.
not even Trump could get away with 2/3, it would remove what little credit he has left with the GOP.



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17 Mar 2017, 8:01 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Our politicians are stupid about healthcare and dishonest about their real intentions and limitations, they can't advocate for certain things and still be elected to office. There are powerful forces that work against any sort of reform besides just the insurance companies, the insurance companies were heavily involved in crafting Obamacare as one can obviously see why mandating that citizens but private health insurance would be a boon to them.

What were the issues with healthcare? Cost and the pre-existing conditions, there's no way both problems can be addressed at the same time. The mandate is absolute failure as it only raises demand, that can only raise prices with no change in supply. There needs to be some other solution for the 'uninsurable' without it being a dumping ground for the insurance companies, it shouldn't be subsidized on the back's of healthy people that don't want to pay for too expensive healthcare they can't afford to even use.


There is a solution to all that: single payer.


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17 Mar 2017, 9:47 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Trump-Care doesn't appear constitutional.

If this is permitted , then the government has unlimited powers.

You must maintain continuous health coverage, or pay a huge non-tax penalty.
You must buy an American-made car, or pay a huge non-tax penalty.
You must go to church on Sunday, or pay a huge non-tax penalty.

You must do X , or pay a huge non-tax penalty.

Exactly!
It potentially opens a Pandora's box.
The people I see that support Obamacare the most are the users and takers. The ones that preach about being their brothers keeper but they themselves are the ones being kept, not doing the keeping.


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