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Does the government own your vagina?

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Master_Pedant
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12 Apr 2011, 3:19 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Likewise I wouldn't take someone else's life cuz my own life has become ruined through my own choices.


There's no "someone" involved. If you make abortion illegal, however, there will be numerous "someone"'s involved.
So why is it okay for you to insist a fetus isn't a life, yet when someone else insists it is, they should save it for their own choir? That is hypocritical douchebaggery. Whether or not you see a fetus as a life depends on your stance. Yet you say it as if it doesn't.


The bacertia you kill with disinfectant cleaner is "life", yet I have no moral interest in perserving it.


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12 Apr 2011, 3:22 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

I wouldn't take someone else's teeth just cuz my own teeth have become ruined through my own choices. Likewise I wouldn't take someone else's life cuz my own life has become ruined through my own choices.


For the love of god.
The vast majority of abortions consist of a woman taking a pill and bleeding into a panty liner for a couple days.

It's easy, as a male, for you to view abortion in terms of "taking life", because you will never so long as you live be host for the better part of a year to a rapidly-growing organism that exerts a massive strain on every system of your body until you're forced to push the huge thing out, most often ripping your most delicate parts and quite possibly risking complications that can turn fatal in an instant.

When you're in a situation where it's even possible for you to be an incubator, we can talk about what you would and would not do if going through the above threatened your ability to provide for your already-existing children, or you knew because of your financial situation your baby would suffer health problems because you could not afford pre-natal care, or if the religious bigots in your town would treat you as a social pariah and shun you, or your parents would throw you out.

Until then, I'm betting you'd pop a pill and ride the cramps for a few days.


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Bethie
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12 Apr 2011, 3:26 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Whether or not you see a fetus as a life depends on your stance.


Nope. The fetus is biologically alive and genetically human.

Neither negates a woman's pre-existing autonomy,
nor does such a laughably-subjective concept as "personhood".


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AceOfSpades
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12 Apr 2011, 3:41 pm

Bethie wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:

I wouldn't take someone else's teeth just cuz my own teeth have become ruined through my own choices. Likewise I wouldn't take someone else's life cuz my own life has become ruined through my own choices.


For the love of god.
The vast majority of abortions consist of a woman taking a pill and bleeding into a panty liner for a couple days.

It's easy, as a male, for you to view abortion in terms of "taking life", because you will never so long as you live be host for the better part of a year to a rapidly-growing organism that exerts a massive strain on every system of your body until you're forced to push the huge thing out, most often ripping your most delicate parts and quite possibly risking complications that can turn fatal in an instant.

When you're in a situation where it's even possible for you to be an incubator, we can talk about what you would and would not do if going through the above threatened your ability to provide for your already-existing children, or you knew because of your financial situation your baby would suffer health problems because you could not afford pre-natal care, or if the religious bigots in your town would treat you as a social pariah and shun you, or your parents would throw you out.

Until then, I'm betting you'd pop a pill and ride the cramps for a few days.
So the whole significance of this discussion all boils down to the physical pain of abortion or pregnancy? That's pretty shortsighted for such a topic like abortion that pertains to a whole more than just that. And plus how do you not get into any type of predicament? Avoid it or minimize the risks (even then you must be willing to accept the risk that still exists). When did I say I'm against abortion in cases of rape or the risk of killing the mother? I've said time and time again that those are the only exceptions I make to abortion.

Bethie wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Whether or not you see a fetus as a life depends on your stance.


Nope. The fetus is biologically alive and genetically human.

Neither negates a woman's pre-existing autonomy,
nor does such a laughably-subjective concept as "personhood".
And I consider it worthy of being considered a person since it is developing into a full grown baby. To me life starts when sperm becomes fertilized in the ovum. Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes, then it will amount to being a full grown baby. Anyways this isn't gonna go anywhere so I've said everything I needed to say.



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12 Apr 2011, 3:45 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes


Whew! Thank you for clarifying.. I was afraid the next step was to call some of us cannibals.



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12 Apr 2011, 4:08 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
And I consider it worthy of being considered a person since it is developing into a full grown baby. To me life starts when sperm becomes fertilized in the ovum. Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes, then it will amount to being a full grown baby.


So why doesn't a hair follicle amount to being a full grown baby? A zygote has little that a hair follicle doesn't.


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BurntOutMom
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12 Apr 2011, 4:17 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
And I consider it worthy of being considered a person since it is developing into a full grown baby. To me life starts when sperm becomes fertilized in the ovum. Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes, then it will amount to being a full grown baby.


So why doesn't a hair follicle amount to being a full grown baby? A zygote has little that a hair follicle doesn't.


Except potential to grow into a fetus........................

sorry :(



AceOfSpades
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12 Apr 2011, 4:19 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
And I consider it worthy of being considered a person since it is developing into a full grown baby. To me life starts when sperm becomes fertilized in the ovum. Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes, then it will amount to being a full grown baby.


So why doesn't a hair follicle amount to being a full grown baby? A zygote has little that a hair follicle doesn't.
"Amount to being" means developing into. Fertilized sperm develops into a full grown baby.



Vexcalibur
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12 Apr 2011, 4:20 pm

BurntOutMom wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
And I consider it worthy of being considered a person since it is developing into a full grown baby. To me life starts when sperm becomes fertilized in the ovum. Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes, then it will amount to being a full grown baby.


So why doesn't a hair follicle amount to being a full grown baby? A zygote has little that a hair follicle doesn't.


Except potential to grow into a fetus........................

sorry :(
It is possible to use any cell for cloning. It may not become a viable human, but it has potential to grow into a fetus.


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12 Apr 2011, 4:21 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
And I consider it worthy of being considered a person since it is developing into a full grown baby. To me life starts when sperm becomes fertilized in the ovum. Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes, then it will amount to being a full grown baby.


So why doesn't a hair follicle amount to being a full grown baby? A zygote has little that a hair follicle doesn't.
"Amount to being" means developing into. Fertilized sperm develops into a full grown baby.


not most of them.


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12 Apr 2011, 4:22 pm

Bethie wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Whether or not you see a fetus as a life depends on your stance.


Nope. The fetus is biologically alive and genetically human.

Neither negates a woman's pre-existing autonomy,
nor does such a laughably-subjective concept as "personhood".


To elaborate, sperm are biologically alive and genetically human as well.


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12 Apr 2011, 4:22 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:
BurntOutMom wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
And I consider it worthy of being considered a person since it is developing into a full grown baby. To me life starts when sperm becomes fertilized in the ovum. Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes, then it will amount to being a full grown baby.


So why doesn't a hair follicle amount to being a full grown baby? A zygote has little that a hair follicle doesn't.


Except potential to grow into a fetus........................

sorry :(
It is possible to use any cell for cloning. It may not become a viable human, but it has potential to grow into a fetus.


True. Should skin cells thus eventually be considered 'human beings' because they have the potential to yield stem cells that could be turned into a cloned human being?


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AceOfSpades
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12 Apr 2011, 4:24 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
And I consider it worthy of being considered a person since it is developing into a full grown baby. To me life starts when sperm becomes fertilized in the ovum. Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes, then it will amount to being a full grown baby.


So why doesn't a hair follicle amount to being a full grown baby? A zygote has little that a hair follicle doesn't.
"Amount to being" means developing into. Fertilized sperm develops into a full grown baby.


not most of them.
They do if the process goes uninterrupted by miscarriage or abortion.

@ Vexcalibur: And I'm against cloning. But I consider a clone a human being as well once it fertilizes, so I dunno where you're going with it.



Last edited by AceOfSpades on 12 Apr 2011, 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Master_Pedant
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12 Apr 2011, 4:26 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
And I consider it worthy of being considered a person since it is developing into a full grown baby. To me life starts when sperm becomes fertilized in the ovum. Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes, then it will amount to being a full grown baby.


So why doesn't a hair follicle amount to being a full grown baby? A zygote has little that a hair follicle doesn't.
"Amount to being" means developing into. Fertilized sperm develops into a full grown baby.


Often times, zygotes don't develop into full grown babies. Why don't physicians and medical specialists go out of there way to save every zygote from being reabsorbed into the mother's body?

No zygote is sacred.


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skafather84
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12 Apr 2011, 4:26 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
And I consider it worthy of being considered a person since it is developing into a full grown baby. To me life starts when sperm becomes fertilized in the ovum. Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes, then it will amount to being a full grown baby.


So why doesn't a hair follicle amount to being a full grown baby? A zygote has little that a hair follicle doesn't.
"Amount to being" means developing into. Fertilized sperm develops into a full grown baby.


not most of them.
They do if the process goes uninterrupted by miscarriage or abortion.


No....a fertilized egg can be flushed away very easily so long as it doesn't attach to the wall of the uterus. Fertilized eggs are discarded all the time by women.


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12 Apr 2011, 4:28 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Vexcalibur wrote:
BurntOutMom wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
And I consider it worthy of being considered a person since it is developing into a full grown baby. To me life starts when sperm becomes fertilized in the ovum. Sperm amounts to nothing until it fertilizes, then it will amount to being a full grown baby.


So why doesn't a hair follicle amount to being a full grown baby? A zygote has little that a hair follicle doesn't.


Except potential to grow into a fetus........................

sorry :(
It is possible to use any cell for cloning. It may not become a viable human, but it has potential to grow into a fetus.


True. Should skin cells thus eventually be considered 'human beings' because they have the potential to yield stem cells that could be turned into a cloned human being?


+1


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