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14 dead and 50 injured in mass shooting in Colorado.

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GoonSquad
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23 Jul 2012, 10:56 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
biostructure wrote:
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Also what uniqueness..as far as I've heard the guy was pretty normal and didn't fit that whole loner stereotype.


Not from what I've been reading--everyone described him as nice, but also very isolated and not engaging in "normal" social behavior. From that video of him at the summer camp, it seems he was into the intersection between science and philosophy or the supernatural. People who combine science and mysticism are often not taken seriously by either side (sometimes they have cult followings, but that's a different story).

It seems that socially inept people who were always exceptionally bright students, and who derived their primary identity from this, are at particular risk for depression when their intellectual dominance is threatened. This is at least partly because they have trouble getting sympathy both from "normal" people because of their awkwardness, and from other outsiders who are jealous that they never were on that pedestal in the first place to be able to be fall from it.

If these people "fall through the cracks" and become disgruntled, they may not have the coping skills to deal with changes in their social status, because they never needed those skills growing up as asocial boy/girl geniuses. Others in their lives, including their families, may have been so much in awe of their brilliance that they overlooked the need to teach those skills.

When a person figures out in graduate school that he or she is mentally (over)developed, but not fully formed as a human being, it can be difficult to grow in that environment. People are all stressed out and often competitive, which means they won't go the extra mile to take care of someone who has emotional issues. Once in a lab in grad school, I overheard two women talking about how they would often go home and cry because of how bad their days went.

I certainly am not happy that Holmes resorted to violence, but at least we know he must have made a strong effort to lead an honest and constructive life, to get to where he was. The fact that he clearly became violent only after he "snapped", in my moral code, puts him above a career criminal who intentionally chooses a violent way of life over a nonviolent one.


From what I've heard I guess I will look more into it, this is all speculation and there is also evidence he did lead a pretty normal life. Also with the bombs or whatever in the aparment including getting the supplies and the gun probably took months. So I don't buy that he just snapped under the pressure due to having some over-intelligence. I mean I have gotten pretty fed up with the way things are and that I have intelligence I cannot seem to use for anything but I'm not planning a mass murder. But anyways I think if he had just snapped he would not have had months to plan it out.......it would have been more of an impulsive thing not something he was planning for months.


I think biostructure is probably right about this guy not being able to cope when his academic career went south... BUT I also agree that this guy did not just snap.

When his life went bad he surrendered to bitterness and evil. Everyone who has a failure or set back doesn't kill a dozen people to vent.... :roll:

This guy made a decision to become a monster.


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23 Jul 2012, 11:28 am

I just saw him on tv now in court... looks like he may be on psych meds since he looked out of it. The fact that he looks remorseful could be a good sign IF he just started taking antipsychotics, because that would indicate that he sees things more clearly than he did before.

I'm changing my tune slightly but there is one and only defense for him - he must have literally believed he was the Joker - not metaphorically, not in fantasy, he must have literally believed it. Nothing else is going to hold much water.

You can insane and still be legally competent. Even if he does have paranoid schizophrenia, he still may not be considered legally insane. It depends on how far gone he really was.



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23 Jul 2012, 11:31 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
I just saw him on tv now in court... looks like he may be on psych meds since he looked out of it. The fact that he looks remorseful could be a good sign IF he just started taking antipsychotics, because that would indicate that he sees things more clearly than he did before.

I'm changing my tune slightly but there is one and only defense for him - he must have literally believed he was the Joker - not metaphorically, not in fantasy, he must have literally believed it. Nothing else is going to hold much water.

You can insane and still be legally competent. Even if he does have paranoid schizophrenia, he still may not be considered legally insane. It depends on how far gone he really was.


I doubt he does...but if he did and he was truly delusional at the time of the crime then that would have to be a factor and the only reason they wouldn't consider that insane legally is so people can have their revenge. But I think its more likely he was a psychopath if anything, I mean paranoid delusions and planning a mass murder are hardly the same thing.


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23 Jul 2012, 11:46 am

Does psychopathy have an onset in childhood, adolescence or adulthood or is it possible to develop psychopathy in any of those stages?
In any case, I remember his mother was immediately sure that his son was the culprit which probably means that whatever it is, "it" (this part of him or his behavior) has been there for some time already. Which is obvious if you consider that he had it seemingly all planned out for months but which is still something he could've hidden from others. He probably did hide this part of his plans but not his behaviour which was either changing or already there.
I guess it will all come out in some days or weeks.


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23 Jul 2012, 12:45 pm

Some sources are saying he had a partner and broke up just before the shooting. Also, I have seen photos of him where he looks quite normal, making the same faces people make when having their picture taken. He sounds like a normal guy having what some people call a midlife crisis only his came early.



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23 Jul 2012, 1:00 pm

biostructure wrote:
heavenlyabyss wrote:
The fact that he never had any arrests before this event just means he was probably an intellectual narcissist. When his intelligence proved useless, he systematically and deliberately devised a plot to gain infamy. The more I watch about it, the more painfully obvious it becomes.


But isn't this something us on the spectrum are all prone to? Just imagine, for instance, Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory. What if he hadn't had the friends he did, or the supportive mother? I could see him doing something like this, if he became misunderstood enough. Of course, that show is a comedy, so they would never let this happen.

And isn't it bad enough that anyone with high intelligence be labeled "useless"? I have empathy for nearly all disgruntled intellectuals, everywhere. That doesn't mean that I'm happy about the way he chose to handle it, which ruined the lives of many innocent people and endangered the lives of even more. But I can't help but think that our society is becoming ill-equipped to handle those it considers "too smart for their own good".

The point is not to draw a line between those disgruntled intellectuals who snap and those who don't, and then villainizing the ones who do, while praising those who don't as examples of restraint yet still not really trying to empathize with them emotionally either. The point is that yes, remaining ethical even when disgruntled is important, but the real issue is why people get disgruntled to begin with.

Back when that video was taken at summer camp, he could have been myself, or probably many on this board. He obviously was very smart, yet also very needing of a fantasy life and possibly socially undeveloped/immature. Focusing too much on him, over the countless others who had those beginnings yet followed less famous/infamous paths, is contributing to the exact problem that would make someone see infamy as a "solution" to being different.

Why is the spectrum being mentioned here? I have not heard any media sources mention anything about autism of Asperger's,. Just here. People here quickly want to say this guy has a mental illness or Asperger's when there is no proof of that whatsoever. In fact, if you look at what has been reported so far, the guy has spent most of his life being more normal than most normal people. He has led an exemplary life and has absolutely no record of any misconduct or strangeness. He had friends and now they say he was remote but if he had never committed a crime, would they be saying that? Or would they be saying how smart and what a great guy he is? You cannot go by what anyone says after the fact because they are so jaundiced by the horrific deed, there is no way they can be objective. They don't want to say someone accused of going on a shooting rampage is a great guy even if that's what they thought previously. So, they are going to look for flaws and try to create distance. It's a normal reaction to such a discovery.
This guy was a normal kid and a normal teenager. The only bit of abnormal behavior shows up after he moved to Colorado and it was only a tiny bit. One speeding ticket and a profile on Adultfriendfinders plus a fixation on guns and bombs. Lots of people have such fixations. If they didn't, guns would be illegal in the US. Lots of people have profiles on AdultFriendFinders. Obviously, they do not all do these types of crimes. He liked to game on the internet but so do millions of others who do not go on to shoot up public venues. My point is, HE IS NOT SUPERFICIALLY ABNORMAL when put into the context of society and American culture that pervades today. However, he is abnormal on a profound level in the fact he coldly calculated and committed this crime.
You cannot find the clues in his past because they simply are not there which means this behavior is impossible to predict. It's not the loner or the schizophrenic that you use to profile because anyone is capable.



Last edited by ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo on 23 Jul 2012, 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Jul 2012, 1:01 pm

I hear alot of people on cnn boards and elsewhere wondering if he is paranoid schizophrenic. I seriously doubt that because people with PS are very illogical if best and would not have the logical capacity to rig up the appartment like he did.
As for a motive....some things dont need explanation. Evil is evil, period.

Also all this talk about him being introverted and keeps to himself is getting under my skin cause nearly everytime there is a mass killer, the first thing news anchors say is "He was quiet and keeps to himself" Unfortunately this stimatizes introverts as mass killers. I hear people say, "its always the quiet ones you know"

urrrg.


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23 Jul 2012, 1:06 pm

jojobean wrote:
I hear alot of people on cnn boards and elsewhere wondering if he is paranoid schizophrenic. I seriously doubt that because people with PS are very illogical if best and would not have the logical capacity to rig up the appartment like he did.
As for a motive....some things dont need explanation. Evil is evil, period.

Also all this talk about him being introverted and keeps to himself is getting under my skin cause nearly everytime there is a mass killer, the first thing news anchors say is "He was quiet and keeps to himself" Unfortunately this stimatizes introverts as mass killers. I hear people say, "its always the quiet ones you know"

urrrg.

It's because people cannot accept what they consider a "normal" person doing this because it means that anyone could. They want it to be the schizophrenic or loner and no one else because it helps them feel comfortable and create distance between themselves and what the person who commits this sort of crime is. It's disturbing to think the honor student with a college degree, parents who had a good marriage, worked as a counselor to underprivileged kids, went to the best public schools in the US, grew up in a good home in an upscale neighborhood could possibly do this. People want to believe the only ones capable are the mental defects or mentally ill, people who come from broken homes, poor neighborhoods, and no education. Well, that's just not the case.



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23 Jul 2012, 1:11 pm

An honest statement about James Holmes? He had a good life but he's just a psychopath.



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23 Jul 2012, 1:30 pm

I know yahoo is not the best source, but I just read that he didn't say anything while he was in court. Just kind of fell asleep a few times. :?


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23 Jul 2012, 1:38 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
It's not the loner or the schizophrenic that you use to profile because anyone is capable.


^this


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23 Jul 2012, 1:40 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
An honest statement about James Holmes? He had a good life but he's just a psychopath.


Its kind of what I think, since as far as I know psychopaths are good at hiding their true nature, like serial killers who are able to lure in victims by being charismatic.


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23 Jul 2012, 1:43 pm

persian85033 wrote:
I know yahoo is not the best source, but I just read that he didn't say anything while he was in court. Just kind of fell asleep a few times. :?


I hear they have him doped up


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23 Jul 2012, 1:45 pm

persian85033 wrote:
I know yahoo is not the best source, but I just read that he didn't say anything while he was in court. Just kind of fell asleep a few times. :?

There's actual video of him sitting in the court room with his eyes drooping and him slumping over with head bowed.



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23 Jul 2012, 1:52 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
jojobean wrote:
I hear alot of people on cnn boards and elsewhere wondering if he is paranoid schizophrenic. I seriously doubt that because people with PS are very illogical if best and would not have the logical capacity to rig up the appartment like he did.
As for a motive....some things dont need explanation. Evil is evil, period.

Also all this talk about him being introverted and keeps to himself is getting under my skin cause nearly everytime there is a mass killer, the first thing news anchors say is "He was quiet and keeps to himself" Unfortunately this stimatizes introverts as mass killers. I hear people say, "its always the quiet ones you know"

urrrg.

It's because people cannot accept what they consider a "normal" person doing this because it means that anyone could. They want it to be the schizophrenic or loner and no one else because it helps them feel comfortable and create distance between themselves and what the person who commits this sort of crime is. It's disturbing to think the honor student with a college degree, parents who had a good marriage, worked as a counselor to underprivileged kids, went to the best public schools in the US, grew up in a good home in an upscale neighborhood could possibly do this. People want to believe the only ones capable are the mental defects or mentally ill, people who come from broken homes, poor neighborhoods, and no education. Well, that's just not the case.


your right...now that I look at it. There is a desperate effort by the news to find something about him which they can distance themselves from. The fact is that is doesnt exist.... like you said ...he lived a good life but is a psychopath.

I think the most unnerving thing about this to most people is that he seemed so normal which really screws with people's trust in other people.


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23 Jul 2012, 1:58 pm

jojobean wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
jojobean wrote:
I hear alot of people on cnn boards and elsewhere wondering if he is paranoid schizophrenic. I seriously doubt that because people with PS are very illogical if best and would not have the logical capacity to rig up the appartment like he did.
As for a motive....some things dont need explanation. Evil is evil, period.

Also all this talk about him being introverted and keeps to himself is getting under my skin cause nearly everytime there is a mass killer, the first thing news anchors say is "He was quiet and keeps to himself" Unfortunately this stimatizes introverts as mass killers. I hear people say, "its always the quiet ones you know"

urrrg.

It's because people cannot accept what they consider a "normal" person doing this because it means that anyone could. They want it to be the schizophrenic or loner and no one else because it helps them feel comfortable and create distance between themselves and what the person who commits this sort of crime is. It's disturbing to think the honor student with a college degree, parents who had a good marriage, worked as a counselor to underprivileged kids, went to the best public schools in the US, grew up in a good home in an upscale neighborhood could possibly do this. People want to believe the only ones capable are the mental defects or mentally ill, people who come from broken homes, poor neighborhoods, and no education. Well, that's just not the case.


your right...now that I look at it. There is a desperate effort by the news to find something about him which they can distance themselves from. The fact is that is doesnt exist.... like you said ...he lived a good life but is a psychopath.

I think the most unnerving thing about this to most people is that he seemed so normal which really screws with people's trust in other people.

I get the feeling the media is a bit disappointed they cannot find anything. They have been searching and searching since the day after the shooting. "Normal" doesn't do much for ratings or sales.