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Is America heading towards fascism?

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marshall
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13 Nov 2012, 7:19 pm

DiscardedWhisper wrote:
Liberals use this as the "Gotcha!" scenario for Libertarians for two reasons. One, it's the only "Gotcha!" scenario that really works for them; and two, it plays right into liberal politics which is using legislation to force redistribution of wealth and social power. The sticking point of this scenario is that while one social group gains, another loses from govt intervention. This stokes resentment and can actually make the problem worse. Of courses liberals have no regard for the social group that loses out for whatever reason. Everyone is now forced to play on the same field at the same level, regardless of their actual ability to do so.

The upshot of all the is there's not true equality in this scenario. The one entity that always wins in this situation is the govt, which is always using situations like this to expand it's own power. And that's where the "fair" aspect ends, because the only true power is the govt as it gets to pick the winners and losers. And will always pick in favor of expanding it's influence.

This is one of the reasons why modern liberalism and the democratic party are being labeled as "Neo-Fascists". They seek a govt that is run solely by there own party. (Which they just achieved in California, pray for us.) Fascism has little regard for personal liberty and is only interested in expanding the reach of it's own sphere of influence. Although I suspect their goal is more a movement towards Soviet Fascism then traditional Italian Fascism.


This right here is the problem with American "libertarianism". This kind of tin-foil-hat nonsense makes you sound like a Glenn Beck fan. You are not a "libertarian". You are a conservative reactionary. Your cover is blown. If it were 1860 you'd probably be whining about fascist government not caring about southern slave-owning plantation owners losing out. With your kind of talk so rampant I wouldn't be surprised if the president gets shot. Your kind obviously has a deep disgust for democracy. If someone does get killed your ilk better be prepared for the blood to flow.



ruveyn
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13 Nov 2012, 7:22 pm

marshall wrote:

This right here is the problem with American "libertarianism". This kind of tin-foil-hat nonsense makes you sound like a Glenn Beck fan. You are not a "libertarian". You are a conservative reactionary. Your cover is blown. If it were 1860 you'd probably be whining about fascist government not caring about southern slave-owning plantation owners losing out. With your kind of talk so rampant I wouldn't be surprised if the president gets shot. Your kind obviously has a deep disgust for democracy. If someone does get killed your ilk better be prepared for the blood to flow.

A bigot on the left is still a bigot.

Now I have a plain question for you: What is wrong with voluntary association where party A is free to associate with B (if it is mutually agreed up) or free not to associate with B.

Do you have a problem with this principle?

ruveyn



marshall
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13 Nov 2012, 7:30 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:

This right here is the problem with American "libertarianism". This kind of tin-foil-hat nonsense makes you sound like a Glenn Beck fan. You are not a "libertarian". You are a conservative reactionary. Your cover is blown. If it were 1860 you'd probably be whining about fascist government not caring about southern slave-owning plantation owners losing out. With your kind of talk so rampant I wouldn't be surprised if the president gets shot. Your kind obviously has a deep disgust for democracy. If someone does get killed your ilk better be prepared for the blood to flow.

A bigot on the left is still a bigot.

Now I have a plain question for you: What is wrong with voluntary association where party A is free to associate with B (if it is mutually agreed up) or free not to associate with B.

Do you have a problem with this principle?

ruveyn


I have a problem with insane racist Bircher fanatics throwing around the word "Fascist" to describe civil rights legislation in the 1960s. I know the smell of a closeted racist as*hole.



Kraichgauer
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13 Nov 2012, 7:38 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Oh come, now. Nobody lost anything when blacks were given legal and social equality with whites. If anything, a side benefit had been that the rest of the country no longer saw the south as a bigoted hole, and began to invest there, increasing everyone's standard of living.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Do you believe that unjust means to a just end is kosher?

The real break through came with the reform of voting regulations in 1965. For the first time since the U.S. sold out on reconstruction in 1877 and the Jim Crow laws were put in, Black southrons were able to register and to vote. That was a proper move because it enforced the 14th Amendment concerning equal protection of the laws.

ruveyn


Yep, I see it a Kosher. The reform of voting regulations was ultimately a package deal with legally allowing black customers to eat at the same lunch counter as whites.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Kraichgauer
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13 Nov 2012, 7:45 pm

DiscardedWhisper wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Oh come, now. Nobody lost anything when blacks were given legal and social equality with whites. If anything, a side benefit had been that the rest of the country no longer saw the south as a bigoted hole, and began to invest there, increasing everyone's standard of living.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


That isn't the point.

Govt intervention didn't solve the problem, people came to the conclusions on their own. And some people are never going to come to that conclusion but they're entitled to their opinion. And while we're on the subject of bigotry, what would you say about people like Samuel L. Jackson, Kanye West or George Lopez who are openly bigoted against whites? Does that fall into your doctrine of fair play? It certainly seems to because no one says a word about it. Except people like me, who point out the hypocritical nature of their opinions and are openly mocked for it. But they're Americans and they're entitled to their opinion, as am I.

And I'm not a racist, but I sure as sh** hate hypocrites.


As a matter of fact, people came to that conclusion only because the government had forced change.
As for George Lopez's bigotry - I think he's an as*hole, and not particularly funny, and so I don't watch him. I've never heard Samuel L. Jackson say anything bigoted, or Kanye West (unless you want to construe his accusation, that George W. hated black people, after Katrina, to be racist).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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14 Nov 2012, 7:20 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
As a matter of fact, people came to that conclusion only because the government had forced change.
As for George Lopez's bigotry - I think he's an as*hole, and not particularly funny, and so I don't watch him. I've never heard Samuel L. Jackson say anything bigoted, or Kanye West (unless you want to construe his accusation, that George W. hated black people, after Katrina, to be racist).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


So what you're advocating is that the govt tells people how they should think and punishes them if they don't fall in line.

Now you're getting into despotism, that's the kind of s**t they run in Banana Republics.

Freedom does not come from govt mandate, as you've just proven here.

And yes, Kanye West and Samuel L. Jackson are well documented in their bigotry against white people. The evidence is not hard to find, and I don't see your precious govt running to shut them up. That's a double-standard in my book, only hypocrites deal in double-standards.



Kraichgauer
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14 Nov 2012, 12:11 pm

DiscardedWhisper wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As a matter of fact, people came to that conclusion only because the government had forced change.
As for George Lopez's bigotry - I think he's an as*hole, and not particularly funny, and so I don't watch him. I've never heard Samuel L. Jackson say anything bigoted, or Kanye West (unless you want to construe his accusation, that George W. hated black people, after Katrina, to be racist).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


So what you're advocating is that the govt tells people how they should think and punishes them if they don't fall in line.

Now you're getting into despotism, that's the kind of sh** they run in Banana Republics.

Freedom does not come from govt mandate, as you've just proven here.

And yes, Kanye West and Samuel L. Jackson are well documented in their bigotry against white people. The evidence is not hard to find, and I don't see your precious govt running to shut them up. That's a double-standard in my book, only hypocrites deal in double-standards.


People can think whatever the hell they want. It's a matter of providing people equal access to service that the government enforces.
And don't call me a hypocrite. I already said, if you don't like what an entertainer says about race, then don't patronize them.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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14 Nov 2012, 12:16 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
[

People can think whatever the hell they want. It's a matter of providing people equal access to service that the government enforces.
And don't call me a hypocrite. I already said, if you don't like what an entertainer says about race, then don't patronize them.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The Federal Govt has no Constitutional power to make private services available to anyone over the objection of the owner who provides that service. The way this monkey business got past the courts was through a perverse interpretation of the Interstate Commerce Clause. The courts said the just because privately owned restaurants bought cups and cutlery from out of state sources that the Federal Government had the power to regulated the. The Founders never intended that the central government have such power. Just another example of the expansion of quasi-fascism in the U.S.

ruveyn



marshall
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14 Nov 2012, 12:28 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
DiscardedWhisper wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As a matter of fact, people came to that conclusion only because the government had forced change.
As for George Lopez's bigotry - I think he's an as*hole, and not particularly funny, and so I don't watch him. I've never heard Samuel L. Jackson say anything bigoted, or Kanye West (unless you want to construe his accusation, that George W. hated black people, after Katrina, to be racist).

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


So what you're advocating is that the govt tells people how they should think and punishes them if they don't fall in line.

Now you're getting into despotism, that's the kind of sh** they run in Banana Republics.

Freedom does not come from govt mandate, as you've just proven here.

And yes, Kanye West and Samuel L. Jackson are well documented in their bigotry against white people. The evidence is not hard to find, and I don't see your precious govt running to shut them up. That's a double-standard in my book, only hypocrites deal in double-standards.


People can think whatever the hell they want. It's a matter of providing people equal access to service that the government enforces.
And don't call me a hypocrite. I already said, if you don't like what an entertainer says about race, then don't patronize them.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


People who whine about "bigotry against white people" are bitter racist f***s. Their complaints have no basis in reality. There's no need to argue with them.



adb
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14 Nov 2012, 12:36 pm

marshall wrote:
People who whine about "bigotry against white people" are bitter racist f****. Their complaints have no basis in reality. There's no need to argue with them.

You seem to define reality as your opinion -- everyone else has no basis in reality. I think you may misunderstand the word "reality".



Kraichgauer
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14 Nov 2012, 12:48 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
[

People can think whatever the hell they want. It's a matter of providing people equal access to service that the government enforces.
And don't call me a hypocrite. I already said, if you don't like what an entertainer says about race, then don't patronize them.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The Federal Govt has no Constitutional power to make private services available to anyone over the objection of the owner who provides that service. The way this monkey business got past the courts was through a perverse interpretation of the Interstate Commerce Clause. The courts said the just because privately owned restaurants bought cups and cutlery from out of state sources that the Federal Government had the power to regulated the. The Founders never intended that the central government have such power. Just another example of the expansion of quasi-fascism in the U.S.

ruveyn


Well, as it's the law of the land, you gotta live with it.
How would you feel if some establishment withheld service from cranky old east coast Jewish guys?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



androbot2084
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14 Nov 2012, 1:16 pm

When I get a drywall job I feel discriminated against.



marshall
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14 Nov 2012, 2:50 pm

adb wrote:
marshall wrote:
People who whine about "bigotry against white people" are bitter racist f****. Their complaints have no basis in reality. There's no need to argue with them.

You seem to define reality as your opinion -- everyone else has no basis in reality. I think you may misunderstand the word "reality".

I'm not in favor of race based quotas for college admissions but white people who make a huge disproportionate and irrational stink about it and want to blame some fictitious black person for holding them down are most likely racists. If it quacks like a duck...



Kraichgauer
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14 Nov 2012, 3:10 pm

marshall wrote:
adb wrote:
marshall wrote:
People who whine about "bigotry against white people" are bitter racist f****. Their complaints have no basis in reality. There's no need to argue with them.

You seem to define reality as your opinion -- everyone else has no basis in reality. I think you may misunderstand the word "reality".

I'm not in favor of race based quotas for college admissions but white people who make a huge disproportionate and irrational stink about it and want to blame some fictitious black person for holding them down are most likely racists. If it quacks like a duck...


I've for one have never lost out regarding school or jobs to a black person, fictional or otherwise.
And so what if blacks get a certain number of jobs or spots in higher education allotted to them by affirmative action? Are those whites complaining upset because they don't get all positions of employment and education?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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14 Nov 2012, 3:30 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Well, as it's the law of the land, you gotta live with it.
How would you feel if some establishment withheld service from cranky old east coast Jewish guys?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Not true. At one time the Volstead Act prohibited the production and sale of alcoholic beverages. The laws was broken, scoffed and spit upon in the grand American fashion. Organized crime even got rich on breaking that law. Eventually the law was repealed along with the Constitutional Amendment that enabled it.

No sir! We don't "gotta live with it". Our Republic came into being by an act of treason against the King of England. We are a Republic of scofflaws and thank God for that!

ruveyn



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14 Nov 2012, 7:20 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Well, as it's the law of the land, you gotta live with it.
How would you feel if some establishment withheld service from cranky old east coast Jewish guys?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Not true. At one time the Volstead Act prohibited the production and sale of alcoholic beverages. The laws was broken, scoffed and spit upon in the grand American fashion. Organized crime even got rich on breaking that law. Eventually the law was repealed along with the Constitutional Amendment that enabled it.

No sir! We don't "gotta live with it". Our Republic came into being by an act of treason against the King of England. We are a Republic of scofflaws and thank God for that!

ruveyn


I concede you are correct in this instance, sir.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer