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Debunking 'Gender is a social contruct.'

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VegetableMan
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04 Jun 2019, 11:18 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I have no advice. I'm simply saying that nobody has the right to impose their ideology on anybody else.

So, then you support non-binary people's right to self-identify, and not have a binary designation imposed on them?


I think everyone should identify as they wish. You're obviously being very cheeky. What is your solution to the problem?

It's a "problem" like any other medical condition.

Early screening, early diagnosis, early treatment helps.


That's beside my primary, point, really. What I'm talking about is granting one group rights while usurping rights of others. The person who brought this issue to my attention was a woman friend who views the measures we're talking about as "anti-woman". I definitely see her point. What seems to be occurring is a movement to erase the entire idea of womanhood. There are midwife organizations that are bowing to pressure to erase any language that alludes to females or motherhood. Sounds quite Orwellian to me.


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04 Jun 2019, 11:27 am

VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I have no advice. I'm simply saying that nobody has the right to impose their ideology on anybody else.

So, then you support non-binary people's right to self-identify, and not have a binary designation imposed on them?


I think everyone should identify as they wish. You're obviously being very cheeky. What is your solution to the problem?

It's a "problem" like any other medical condition.

Early screening, early diagnosis, early treatment helps.


That's beside my primary, point, really. What I'm talking about is granting one group rights while usurping rights of others. The person who brought this issue to my attention was a woman friend who views the measures we're talking about as "anti-woman". I definitely see her point. What seems to be occurring is a movement to erase the entire idea of womanhood. There are midwife organizations that are bowing to pressure to erase any language that alludes to females or motherhood. Sounds quite Orwellian to me.


I don’t think that there is much risk for the entire idea of womanhood to be eradicated completely. I believe that we as a society still have some unhealthy notions and values connected with the word “womanhood” that continue to need addressing. We need to remove some more of the “icky” connotations the word has rather than get rid of the label altogether.

There shouldn’t be any negativity attached to gender labels anywhere on the spectrum. Where I live, I see much more trouble and discrimination lodged against those who don’t conform to stereotypically masculine or feminine roles based upon their biological sex, so in my mind, this is still much more of a problem.

I think as a society we’re still trying to figure all of this stuff out. I’m interested to see where we will be in a few years.



magz
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04 Jun 2019, 11:53 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
That's beside my primary, point, really. What I'm talking about is granting one group rights while usurping rights of others. The person who brought this issue to my attention was a woman friend who views the measures we're talking about as "anti-woman". I definitely see her point. What seems to be occurring is a movement to erase the entire idea of womanhood. There are midwife organizations that are bowing to pressure to erase any language that alludes to females or motherhood. Sounds quite Orwellian to me.


I don’t think that there is much risk for the entire idea of womanhood to be eradicated completely. I believe that we as a society still have some unhealthy notions and values connected with the word “womanhood” that continue to need addressing. We need to remove some more of the “icky” connotations the word has rather than get rid of the label altogether.

There shouldn’t be any negativity attached to gender labels anywhere on the spectrum. Where I live, I see much more trouble and discrimination lodged against those who don’t conform to stereotypically masculine or feminine roles based upon their biological sex, so in my mind, this is still much more of a problem.

I think as a society we’re still trying to figure all of this stuff out. I’m interested to see where we will be in a few years.

I still think that associating one's level of conforming to gender stereotypes to their sexual tastes is... just another gender stereotype.


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TwilightPrincess
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04 Jun 2019, 12:00 pm

magz wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
That's beside my primary, point, really. What I'm talking about is granting one group rights while usurping rights of others. The person who brought this issue to my attention was a woman friend who views the measures we're talking about as "anti-woman". I definitely see her point. What seems to be occurring is a movement to erase the entire idea of womanhood. There are midwife organizations that are bowing to pressure to erase any language that alludes to females or motherhood. Sounds quite Orwellian to me.


I don’t think that there is much risk for the entire idea of womanhood to be eradicated completely. I believe that we as a society still have some unhealthy notions and values connected with the word “womanhood” that continue to need addressing. We need to remove some more of the “icky” connotations the word has rather than get rid of the label altogether.

There shouldn’t be any negativity attached to gender labels anywhere on the spectrum. Where I live, I see much more trouble and discrimination lodged against those who don’t conform to stereotypically masculine or feminine roles based upon their biological sex, so in my mind, this is still much more of a problem.

I think as a society we’re still trying to figure all of this stuff out. I’m interested to see where we will be in a few years.

I still think that associating one's level of conforming to gender stereotypes to their sexual tastes is... just another gender stereotype.


The components that make up gender identity are heavily reliant on stereotypes. Society is built on many levels of beliefs and values that, when you deconstruct them, appear empty or meaningless, but they still shape our experience and determine, at least in part, who we will become, so they still matter.



VegetableMan
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04 Jun 2019, 12:13 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I have no advice. I'm simply saying that nobody has the right to impose their ideology on anybody else.

So, then you support non-binary people's right to self-identify, and not have a binary designation imposed on them?


I think everyone should identify as they wish. You're obviously being very cheeky. What is your solution to the problem?

It's a "problem" like any other medical condition.

Early screening, early diagnosis, early treatment helps.




That's beside my primary, point, really. What I'm talking about is granting one group rights while usurping rights of others. The person who brought this issue to my attention was a woman friend who views the measures we're talking about as "anti-woman". I definitely see her point. What seems to be occurring is a movement to erase the entire idea of womanhood. There are midwife organizations that are bowing to pressure to erase any language that alludes to females or motherhood. Sounds quite Orwellian to me.


I don’t think that there is much risk for the entire idea of womanhood to be eradicated completely. I believe that we as a society still have some unhealthy notions and values connected with the word “womanhood” that continue to need addressing. We need to remove some more of the “icky” connotations the word has rather than get rid of the label altogether.

There shouldn’t be any negativity attached to gender labels anywhere on the spectrum. Where I live, I see much more trouble and discrimination lodged against those who don’t conform to stereotypically masculine or feminine roles based upon their biological sex, so in my mind, this is still much more of a problem.

I think as a society we’re still trying to figure all of this stuff out. I’m interested to see where we will be in a few years.


One of the claims made on the website I posted a few pages back states that the transgender movement is being driven by the billionaire class who have stand to profit heavily via the medical industry by "promoting the lifestyle of transgenderism." One would only need to follow the money to prove or disprove that claim.

This is a very interesting take on all of this from a former transgender activist that I think is worth watching.


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IsabellaLinton
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04 Jun 2019, 12:17 pm

I don't want to get into politics, except to say my cousin's child is transgender and an activist. I've seen first hand the challenge and persecution he has faced from the government (South America) and from his own family. :(

Hugs to everyone as they navigate their own path.


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kraftiekortie
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04 Jun 2019, 12:21 pm

It's very difficult----especially physically---to be transgender.



magz
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04 Jun 2019, 12:25 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
The components that make up gender identity are heavily reliant on stereotypes. Society is built on many levels of beliefs and values that, when you deconstruct them, appear empty or meaningless, but they still shape our experience and determine, at least in part, who we will become, so they still matter.

I have an impression that I actually look a bit from outside. Polish sexual culture seems seriously different from North American. We have our own gender stereotypes - especially the Polish Mother, now fought vigorously by local psychologists - but as they are not the same, the overall picture differs.

Mainstream Catholic church here disapproves same sex sex but does not express strong opinions about conforming to this or that gender stereotype outside intimate life (unless other aspects of ethics are involved). It is possible that this influence is strong enough for the majority of people to see the issues separately (no matter if they agree or disagree with the church - it's about how the problem is formulated).


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Last edited by magz on 04 Jun 2019, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TwilightPrincess
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04 Jun 2019, 12:27 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I have no advice. I'm simply saying that nobody has the right to impose their ideology on anybody else.

So, then you support non-binary people's right to self-identify, and not have a binary designation imposed on them?


I think everyone should identify as they wish. You're obviously being very cheeky. What is your solution to the problem?

It's a "problem" like any other medical condition.

Early screening, early diagnosis, early treatment helps.




That's beside my primary, point, really. What I'm talking about is granting one group rights while usurping rights of others. The person who brought this issue to my attention was a woman friend who views the measures we're talking about as "anti-woman". I definitely see her point. What seems to be occurring is a movement to erase the entire idea of womanhood. There are midwife organizations that are bowing to pressure to erase any language that alludes to females or motherhood. Sounds quite Orwellian to me.


I don’t think that there is much risk for the entire idea of womanhood to be eradicated completely. I believe that we as a society still have some unhealthy notions and values connected with the word “womanhood” that continue to need addressing. We need to remove some more of the “icky” connotations the word has rather than get rid of the label altogether.

There shouldn’t be any negativity attached to gender labels anywhere on the spectrum. Where I live, I see much more trouble and discrimination lodged against those who don’t conform to stereotypically masculine or feminine roles based upon their biological sex, so in my mind, this is still much more of a problem.

I think as a society we’re still trying to figure all of this stuff out. I’m interested to see where we will be in a few years.


One of the claims made on the website I posted a few pages back states that the transgender movement is being driven by the billionaire class who have stand to profit heavily via the medical industry by "promoting the lifestyle of transgenderism." One would only need to follow the money to prove or disprove that claim.

This is a very interesting take on all of this from a former transgender activist that I think is worth watching.



Perhaps most of us don’t have autism but are being diagnosed as such to profit those in mental health professions. More and more people are being diagnosed now than back in the day so it must be some sort of conspiracy.



VegetableMan
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04 Jun 2019, 12:41 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I have no advice. I'm simply saying that nobody has the right to impose their ideology on anybody else.

So, then you support non-binary people's right to self-identify, and not have a binary designation imposed on them?


I think everyone should identify as they wish. You're obviously being very cheeky. What is your solution to the problem?

It's a "problem" like any other medical condition.

Early screening, early diagnosis, early treatment helps.




That's beside my primary, point, really. What I'm talking about is granting one group rights while usurping rights of others. The person who brought this issue to my attention was a woman friend who views the measures we're talking about as "anti-woman". I definitely see her point. What seems to be occurring is a movement to erase the entire idea of womanhood. There are midwife organizations that are bowing to pressure to erase any language that alludes to females or motherhood. Sounds quite Orwellian to me.


I don’t think that there is much risk for the entire idea of womanhood to be eradicated completely. I believe that we as a society still have some unhealthy notions and values connected with the word “womanhood” that continue to need addressing. We need to remove some more of the “icky” connotations the word has rather than get rid of the label altogether.

There shouldn’t be any negativity attached to gender labels anywhere on the spectrum. Where I live, I see much more trouble and discrimination lodged against those who don’t conform to stereotypically masculine or feminine roles based upon their biological sex, so in my mind, this is still much more of a problem.

I think as a society we’re still trying to figure all of this stuff out. I’m interested to see where we will be in a few years.


One of the claims made on the website I posted a few pages back states that the transgender movement is being driven by the billionaire class who have stand to profit heavily via the medical industry by "promoting the lifestyle of transgenderism." One would only need to follow the money to prove or disprove that claim.

This is a very interesting take on all of this from a former transgender activist that I think is worth watching.



Perhaps most of us don’t have autism but are being diagnosed as such to profit those in mental health professions. More and more people are being diagnosed now than back in the day so it must be some sort of conspiracy.


The only difference is that there is far more scientific evidence to back up the diagnosis of autism than there is for the diagnosis of gender dysphoria. And I'm not talking conspiracy here, at all. You don't need a formal conspiracy. All you have to do is see where interests converge.

Is all good and fine to say let's sit back and see how this all plays out. But failure to examine what is happening will come at a huge cost to children's lives. There seems to be too much complacency and willingness to just go along out of fear of being branded a bigot.


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TwilightPrincess
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04 Jun 2019, 12:53 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I have no advice. I'm simply saying that nobody has the right to impose their ideology on anybody else.

So, then you support non-binary people's right to self-identify, and not have a binary designation imposed on them?


I think everyone should identify as they wish. You're obviously being very cheeky. What is your solution to the problem?

It's a "problem" like any other medical condition.

Early screening, early diagnosis, early treatment helps.




That's beside my primary, point, really. What I'm talking about is granting one group rights while usurping rights of others. The person who brought this issue to my attention was a woman friend who views the measures we're talking about as "anti-woman". I definitely see her point. What seems to be occurring is a movement to erase the entire idea of womanhood. There are midwife organizations that are bowing to pressure to erase any language that alludes to females or motherhood. Sounds quite Orwellian to me.


I don’t think that there is much risk for the entire idea of womanhood to be eradicated completely. I believe that we as a society still have some unhealthy notions and values connected with the word “womanhood” that continue to need addressing. We need to remove some more of the “icky” connotations the word has rather than get rid of the label altogether.

There shouldn’t be any negativity attached to gender labels anywhere on the spectrum. Where I live, I see much more trouble and discrimination lodged against those who don’t conform to stereotypically masculine or feminine roles based upon their biological sex, so in my mind, this is still much more of a problem.

I think as a society we’re still trying to figure all of this stuff out. I’m interested to see where we will be in a few years.


One of the claims made on the website I posted a few pages back states that the transgender movement is being driven by the billionaire class who have stand to profit heavily via the medical industry by "promoting the lifestyle of transgenderism." One would only need to follow the money to prove or disprove that claim.

This is a very interesting take on all of this from a former transgender activist that I think is worth watching.



Perhaps most of us don’t have autism but are being diagnosed as such to profit those in mental health professions. More and more people are being diagnosed now than back in the day so it must be some sort of conspiracy.


The only difference is that there is far more scientific evidence to back up the diagnosis of autism than there is for the diagnosis of gender dysphoria. And I'm not talking conspiracy here, at all. You don't need a formal conspiracy. All you have to do is see where interests converge.

Is all good and fine to say let's sit back and see how this all plays out. But failure to examine what is happening will come at a huge cost to children's lives. There seems to be too much complacency and willingness to just go along out of fear of being branded a bigot.


I’m not seeing the “huge cost to children’s lives” that you are claiming.

I’m glad that I’m raising my son in the present where there’s more potential for authenticity than in the past when gender roles were more clearly and rigidly defined.

I grew up in a very toxic environment as far as gender goes, though, so I might have trouble relating to this topic to begin with.



kraftiekortie
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04 Jun 2019, 12:58 pm

This bathroom thing is controversial for a very good reason.

There's the potential for heterosexual men to say they have the "right" to enter a woman's bathroom---and do what he wants there.

There's always been a type of heterosexual man who loves to watch women in the bathroom---for whatever reason.

But....otherwise, I don't see the problem with transgenderism. Probably, most people who are transgender didn't take their decision lightly. It takes multiple surgeries to do this---and they must be counseled extensively before the surgery. One can't just go out and have gender reassignment surgery.



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04 Jun 2019, 1:07 pm

I can't even begin to say how hilarious I find it that cishet people are crying and claiming to be "oppressed" because more individuals today are questioning the gender binary.


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VegetableMan
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04 Jun 2019, 1:12 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
I have no advice. I'm simply saying that nobody has the right to impose their ideology on anybody else.

So, then you support non-binary people's right to self-identify, and not have a binary designation imposed on them?


I think everyone should identify as they wish. You're obviously being very cheeky. What is your solution to the problem?

It's a "problem" like any other medical condition.

Early screening, early diagnosis, early treatment helps.




That's beside my primary, point, really. What I'm talking about is granting one group rights while usurping rights of others. The person who brought this issue to my attention was a woman friend who views the measures we're talking about as "anti-woman". I definitely see her point. What seems to be occurring is a movement to erase the entire idea of womanhood. There are midwife organizations that are bowing to pressure to erase any language that alludes to females or motherhood. Sounds quite Orwellian to me.


I don’t think that there is much risk for the entire idea of womanhood to be eradicated completely. I believe that we as a society still have some unhealthy notions and values connected with the word “womanhood” that continue to need addressing. We need to remove some more of the “icky” connotations the word has rather than get rid of the label altogether.

There shouldn’t be any negativity attached to gender labels anywhere on the spectrum. Where I live, I see much more trouble and discrimination lodged against those who don’t conform to stereotypically masculine or feminine roles based upon their biological sex, so in my mind, this is still much more of a problem.

I think as a society we’re still trying to figure all of this stuff out. I’m interested to see where we will be in a few years.


One of the claims made on the website I posted a few pages back states that the transgender movement is being driven by the billionaire class who have stand to profit heavily via the medical industry by "promoting the lifestyle of transgenderism." One would only need to follow the money to prove or disprove that claim.

This is a very interesting take on all of this from a former transgender activist that I think is worth watching.



Perhaps most of us don’t have autism but are being diagnosed as such to profit those in mental health professions. More and more people are being diagnosed now than back in the day so it must be some sort of conspiracy.


The only difference is that there is far more scientific evidence to back up the diagnosis of autism than there is for the diagnosis of gender dysphoria. And I'm not talking conspiracy here, at all. You don't need a formal conspiracy. All you have to do is see where interests converge.

Is all good and fine to say let's sit back and see how this all plays out. But failure to examine what is happening will come at a huge cost to children's lives. There seems to be too much complacency and willingness to just go along out of fear of being branded a bigot.


I’m not seeing the “huge cost to children’s lives” that you are claiming.

I’m glad that I’m raising my son in the present where there’s more potential for authenticity than in the past when gender roles were more clearly and rigidly defined.

I grew up in a very toxic environment as far as gender goes, though, so I might have trouble relating to this topic to begin with.


There certainly could a cost if we steam forward at the rate we are going without enough solid scientific data to back it up. I certainly a society that is all inclusive where nobody has to be afraid of who they are or how they express themselves. We've seen some very positive changes over the years toward acceptance of the LGBTQ community, and that's a good thing for your son and all young people.

I imagine the environment I grew up in here in the very conservative corn belt wasn't that much different than yours. Still, that doesn't mean some of the drastic measures being initiated don't warrant further reflection or discussion.


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VegetableMan
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04 Jun 2019, 1:19 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
I can't even begin to say how hilarious I find it that cishet people are crying and claiming to be "oppressed" because more individuals today are questioning the gender binary.


I've never said one word against questioning the gender binary. I think that's a good thing. That's not what this discussion is about. I've made my points fairly clear, I believe. You either agree or disagree. Have a nice day!


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04 Jun 2019, 1:25 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
I can't even begin to say how hilarious I find it that cishet people are crying and claiming to be "oppressed" because more individuals today are questioning the gender binary.


It seems to be a common theme...

There’s always a reactionary movement that tries to counteract progress, I’ve found, which can lead to some regression before progress moves forward again.