War in Ukraine: both sides are wrong

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Maybe thats because my Asperger is more severe than other people's. That is actually one thing that kept bothering me because I was told I was mild yet in practice I have a lot less friends than others. Although I can think of few reasons why I was told that

a) I was told that back in 1997, so between then and now the bar has been lowered since a lot more people got diagnosed that used to be undiagnosed

b) I was told that by Brina Siegel, and she is very big in un-diagnosting people altogether, so I might be mild compared to the ones she didn't un-diagnose

c) I don't have sensory issues (well, except for post-covid smell issues, that is) and thats how I am mild

But yeah, the point is that everyone loves you and not me probably because you are "cooler" than me and not because you are actually a nicer person. Which brings me back to the answer to mags question at the top of page 9: the "most typical reason" someone has more friends than others has nothing to do with how nice they are and a lot more to do with how cool they are.

I seem to be way late to the party on this discussion, and don't feel like reading pages and pages to catch up. However, in response to the OP, while I'm normally of the opinion that there are no saints in war, and still operate on that premise here, I do not fault Ukraine for doing what they need to do to defend their country, nor Western nations for offering as much support as we can to the defenders and denouncing the aggressors.

The fact is, Russia is attacking another country. I for one don't necessarily support every political decision made in other countries around the world, but I recognize their right to decide what is right for them, and would never dream of petitioning my country to attack another country for doing something I'm not in support of. So, even if I wasn't 1/4 Ukrainian, I can confidently say I would sympathize more with Ukraine regardless.

I also recognize that Russia is a dictatorship, and the people in that country generally don't want to suffer the consequences of standing up to their dictator...so my beef is 100% with said dictator. The fact remains, he's not exactly making choices that are eliciting sympathy, and in fact, by threatening other countries over their decisions, he's just proving why he deserves to be alone IMHO. He's like that kid on the playground that bullies other kids and then wonders why not too many of them actually want to be his friend...and the ones that are have predispositions towards being bullies too.

So, while it's true that we probably shouldn't think of things in a black and white manner, I'm also not one to assume that a bully and a kid he's bullying should be equally blamed in such a scenario. Heck, countless innocent people have died, been injured, misplaced, etc., and none of them deserved any of this, so it's even worse than a schoolyard scenario, and that's all the more reason why I can only support one side in all of this.

There are a number of claims made by Putin for justifying invasion that clearly need more investigating

1. Ukraine threw out a legitimate elected government (Victor Yanukovych) with aid from the west (My understanding is that Yanukovych was very unpopular because he blocked Ukraine from joining the EU/NATO and wanted to remain allies with Russia)

2. If Ukraine joined NATO after Zelensky became leader then it would increase the chance of military action against Russia- (this is probably the weakest reason Putin has since its based on historical fear Russia has of the west e.g. Napoleon and Hitler). Even if Ukraine joined NATO it would be zero chance anyone would try and invade a nuclear Russia. )

3. Ukraine sabotaged Minsk peace process - while the breakdown was caused by intransigence on both sides, Ukraine's lack of willingness to negotiate should be acknowledged

4. The Russian minority (particularly in Donbas) is at risk of genocide - This was Putin's strongest most persuasive argument he used with the Russian people. Is it true? About 14,000 people died in the conflict including many Russians. There was a narrative claimed by the Donbas Russians that Ukrainian militia were targeting Russian civilians. Given it is impossible to get international journalists into Donbas its nearly impossible to verify this. What is apparent is the existence of neo-Nazi militia fighting for Ukraine who include foreign mercenaries who are anti-Russian. Is there any truth to Putin's claim? in the west there is a tendency to disbelieve everything he says. However if Donbas Russians were the ones who claimed indiscriminate attacks then why are their claims being ignored?

Overall Putin has no justification for full scale invasion. However were there concerns for Russians living in Ukraine before the war? Perhaps we will never know, Certainly there was a call by the Donbas Russians to Putin claiming they were under attack. But the main victims in this invasion have been Ukrainians and Russian soldiers used as cannon fodder by Putin.

Putin has propaganda fantasies floating around. And some Russians buy it.

My point 4 isn't exactly crystal clear, Putin isn't Kim Il Jung. There is often a method to his madness.

They don't.
It may happen, but it isn't allowed.

At the end of WWII, "rape" was one of the "spoils" of war over Germany.
It appears things haven't changed.

The problem is, you keep voting that murderous bastardo back into government.
*THAT* is the problem.

I didn't mean that.
The answer I was having in mind was:
"For a variety of reasons, fair or unfair, but surely no one sane would want to be friends with someone who has repeatedly harmed them and never apologized."

Yes the German mass murder of Russians was far more civilised wasn't it Pepe

QFT.

I am immuned to your non-sequiturs.

So, how many Ukrainians have mass murdered Russians to justify Russian rape and torture of civilians?

Point Pepe for the win.

well what has Soviet troops raping German women in WWII got to do with the current conflict? Most of those soldiers whom you were referring to weren't even Russian, they came from Soviet republics and probably included Ukrainians among their number.

Yeah, that is the problem.
In Poland, too.
But when our govt goes too far, we at least protest.
Some Russians protest, too - mainly young people in Moscow and Petersburg. They do despite the arrests.
They're the hope for this nation.

Continuity of the tactics.
Also, the ones most infamous in Ukraine are Chechens and the most dying ones are Buryats, so this tactics is also continued.

I think conflict in 1945 was far more brutal than in 2022 + the Soviet soldiers had a score to settle with nazi collaborators as many lost family to the Nazis and their collaborators.

I must have been on the wodka.
I meant *Soviet* troops.
BTW, My mother was one of the victims of the Soviet rape fest.