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MissConstrue
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09 Apr 2008, 1:20 am

:lol: Oh I can't think of anything else that would blow this thread up. :(


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Last edited by MissConstrue on 09 Apr 2008, 1:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Averick
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09 Apr 2008, 1:26 am

Seriously, it had to be done. 8)



DeaconBlues
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09 Apr 2008, 2:24 am

Out of context? They're exactly in context, and anyone who's curious can go look them up, as well as all the surrounding passages.

Come on, if you say you want to live by the laws in Leviticus, you don't get to pick and choose - you can't grab this verse and say, "Sure, let's structure our laws around that," then look at another one and say, "No, I like lobster too much to give it up, and I don't want to be unclean until sunset if an ant crawls across my hand."

Or maybe you could acknowledge that like the other rules in Leviticus, it was situational - the Hebrews at the time were in serious danger of being just plain outbred by every other group around, and they needed all the breeders they could get. Maybe you could say, "Okay, we've got enough people now - no need to hate on those who aren't contributing."

I doubt very much you'll get to this stage, as it requires thinking critically, and clearly this is not one of your strong points - but I'll pray for you.


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Griff
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09 Apr 2008, 6:09 am

zendell wrote:
Griff, be thankful I'm not advocating to bring back the death penalty for gay offenders like we used to have in America. One Democrat mentioned below wants to bring it back.
Shut up, Zendell. You're partisan. Your views don't mean anything.



Kilroy
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09 Apr 2008, 7:20 am

zendell wrote:
Griff, be thankful I'm not advocating to bring back the death penalty for gay offenders like we used to have in America.


you sir, are an idiot! :roll:



LiendaBalla
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09 Apr 2008, 8:37 am

This is so #@$% annoying, and this fight has gone on long enough. :x Granted, I admire those that are failful to their beliefs, but common now! I'm with DejaQ! Now they said it. "Fight the argument not the person"

You fighting people (not everyone else, mind you) SHUT THE @!#$ UP ALREADY! Just shut up! How slow you are at catching onto the fact that what your doing isn't working at all! You all prooven your points, now you leave rest of us in peace for a change! Yes, the both of you. . .



Griff
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09 Apr 2008, 10:43 am

Oh, Zendell has no interest whatsoever in an even-sided debate, Lienda. Forget that guy. It's just not going to happen. He's not going to be persuaded. He's a typical evangelical. They don't think. They don't discuss. All they know how to do is spread propaganda. It's all they're taught from the cradle. Try to get this into your head, Lienda. They're a freaking psychotic religious cult based on Christianity. Regardless of how other Christians may behave, people like Zendell will never base their scruples on anything at all other than the most violent and evil interpretations of the Old Testament. You think that only the Muslims are capable of producing dangerous psychofanatics? Osama bin Laden has a counter-part in every religion. They are evil. The only answer is to have them destroyed. There is no reasoning with them.

Now, Parakeet seems to show enlightened interest on occasion, but he seems to scurry away when the discussion doesn't seem to favor him, and then he goes off and starts another of his annoying whine threads.



MissConstrue
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09 Apr 2008, 10:54 am

:lol: I guess Richard Simson didn't work!


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D1nk0
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09 Apr 2008, 10:56 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

DeaconBlues wrote:
Okay, iamnotaparakeet, let's hear a reasoned argument as to why gay people shouldn't get married. And no, that does not permit appeal to the Torah, the Qu'ran, the Bible, the Baghavad Gita, or any other religious texts - while often informed in the past by religious convictions, ours is still at base a secular society, with secular laws (despite the best efforts of evangelical radicals to rewrite the Constitution).

The arguments mocked above are, in fact, the only arguments I have yet heard advanced. The two guys next door getting married will ruin my marriage? How, exactly? It's a change in the institution of marriage, and gub'mint shouldn't get involved? Three words: Loving v. Virginia. That was a change...



Even though this is a strawman it still has some good, mainly the first sentence:

Quote:
2. Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.



Firstly, what is gay and what is natural?

Natural, in this specific case, refers to the bodies of both sexes: male and female. With the exception, or rather statistical aberration, of hermaphrodites there are only these two sexes. The body of the woman is designed for the man and the body of the man is designed for the woman; the vulva and vagina are designed for the penis and the shaft and crest are designed for the clitoris. These items of our bodies are built for each other whether the users are learned as to their function or not.

On a side note, the applications of anal, oral, or manual masturbations are not natural uses of these body parts. Those the practices exist, it is not what the parts were meant for. Similar, though not exactly like, cooking a steak in a toaster. I understand the female may need manual stimulation of the clitoris, but that is a more natural use than inserting a sexual organ into part of the digestive tract though not natural enough to justify the actions of lesbians. Thus, I differentiate between designed function and practiced function.

What is homosexuality then, I define it as attraction to the same sex; id est, the desire for practicing a function of two bodies apart from and without regard for what they are designed for.




Just exactly where did you get these definitions? If you have the impulse to do something with your genitals that will not lead to procreation, how is that unnatural? Its NOT! I want to ask you iamnotaparakeet-WHAT evidence do you have that humans have free will? liberals like StuartM from AFF think that there is no "human nature" and that everything we *want* to do has been taught unto us by means of social conditioning. That is completely ASSININE. Human behaviour is VERY predictable. That doesnt mean you can predict the behaviour of every single individula but if at least 80% of people behave a certain way given a certain stimulus than you got yourself a Definite PATTERN my friend



LiendaBalla
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09 Apr 2008, 12:32 pm

Griff wrote:
Oh, Zendell has no interest whatsoever in an even-sided debate, Lienda. Forget that guy. It's just not going to happen. He's not going to be persuaded. He's a typical evangelical. They don't think. They don't discuss. All they know how to do is spread propaganda. It's all they're taught from the cradle. Try to get this into your head, Lienda.


:roll:

Wow. I guess you think you'r the only one who has the "right belief system". Sure... yeah sure Griff.. right.. YOU want to talk about one sided, yet there you go.. ...again.



DeaconBlues
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09 Apr 2008, 12:42 pm

Griff, thus far in this thread, you have engaged in nothing but argumentum ad hominem. If you wish to debate a topic, I for one would appreciate it if you could address the fallacies in your opponents' arguments (and it's not as if you have only a few such fallacies from which to choose), rather than jumping straight to the insult direct. Debating with them might or might not change their minds; screaming invective at them certainly won't, and has the added disadvantage of causing your "side" of the discussion to appear ridiculous to an outside observer.


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CityAsylum
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09 Apr 2008, 12:46 pm

LiendaBalla wrote:
Griff wrote:
Oh, Zendell has no interest whatsoever in an even-sided debate, Lienda. Forget that guy. It's just not going to happen. He's not going to be persuaded. He's a typical evangelical. They don't think. They don't discuss. All they know how to do is spread propaganda. It's all they're taught from the cradle. Try to get this into your head, Lienda.

:roll:
Wow, such an ego you got. I guess you think you'r the only one who has the "right belief system". Sure... yeah sure Griff.. right.. YOU want to talk about one sided, yet there you go.. ...again.

Umm, Griff DOES have a valid side, LiendaBalla, and you probably do, too. Lashing out at Griff doesn't help, though.

To have a real discussion, you'd have to first know what it is like to be discriminated against in every part of your life, often by people who sanctimoniously wrap themselves in the cloak of conservative Christianity, or as we saw on September 11th, that of Islamic fundamentalism.

It isn't real talk, it is just noise, and it's very off-putting, not to mention destructive.

Sometimes actually LISTENING to a person with Griff's levels of frustration and anger might lead the preacher element into discussing instead of proselytizing; but, as he described, they don't actually listen, they just preach.



LiendaBalla
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09 Apr 2008, 1:08 pm

Like I'm going to listen to "You filthy piece of #$%!" or "FU" or that, as he did a while ago. Where is it now? number 5, where he calls us fundamentalists and trash, and he don't even know me?

Feel free to point out where Griff "listened" as you put it to any of us without hurling something to stur us up? And I haven't even mentioned one dam time anything hateful toward gays. Such as "Stupid fag" and the like. Why would I, being oriented as I am?

Nobody speaks for me. I hate fighting. I'm sick of fighting! And It pisses me off.



Last edited by LiendaBalla on 09 Apr 2008, 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CityAsylum
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09 Apr 2008, 1:17 pm

LiendaBalla wrote:
This is so #@$% annoying, and this fight has gone on long enough. Granted, I admire those that are failful to their beliefs, but common now! I'm with DejaQ! Now they said it. "Fight the argument not the person"

You fighting people (not everyone else, mind you) SHUT THE @!#$ UP ALREADY! Just shut up! How slow you are at catching onto the fact that what your doing isn't working at all! You all prooven your points, now you leave rest of us in peace for a change! Yes, the both of you. . .


Well, despite your angry 'plea' for peace, above, you are on a wild rampage yourself, so now it's a slapfest.

If you hate fighting, stop fighting.

For the record, them's fightin' words:
LiendaBalla wrote:
Like I'm going to listen to "You filthy piece of #$%!" or "FU" or that, as he did a while ago. Where is it now? number 5, where he calls us fundamentalists and trash, and he don't even know me?

I'M the one that's supposed to back down when intults are tossed around? :roll: :evil: Won't happen! I'm not whimpy, to go take one slap in the face, let other people get slapped around, and say 'sorry' like a 'good little servant' only to take another hit in the cheek and then some!

There's a one in every corner of the universe, whoes got to say "FU" call everyone else something stupid because we/they don't display his views, with his wittle sympathy side kick to save the day!

Feel free to point out where Griff "listened" as you put it to any of us without hurling something to stur us up?

Nobody speaks for me. I hate fighting. I'm sick of fighting! And It pisses me off.



Last edited by CityAsylum on 09 Apr 2008, 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

DejaQ
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09 Apr 2008, 1:20 pm

Griff wrote:
Argumentum ad hominem. My personal feelings toward Zendell and Parakeet have nothing to do with the validity of my position. You are arguing that it does affect the validity of my position. This is argumentum ad hominem by textbook definition. You're doing the same thing you're accusing me of, man.

You gotta understand, dude, this isn't just some distant, intellectual issue for me. It's something that could really affect the course of my life. Just a few years ago, we were just a c**t-hair away from the sodomy laws coming back. Just a few years ago, a gay man couldn't hope to hold political office anywhere in the country. Keeping these guys down is a necessity of life for a person in my position.


I didn't see it really as an ad hominem issue because we're basically on the same side. :? And even though I addressed you personally I'm calling out people on all sides to remain civil. If you can't convince them with a reasonable argument, how do you expect "f**k you, bastard!" to work?



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09 Apr 2008, 1:23 pm

i thought those were pretty funny. and true for the most part, furthermore religion sucks. i want jesus to come back already and start hanging some sniggers by there toes already


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