Page 13 of 13 [ 197 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 9, 10, 11, 12, 13

EarlPurple
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jun 2009
Age: 59
Gender: Male
Posts: 162
Location: London, UK

09 Jun 2009, 10:56 am

It's not just that the Jews were there 2000 years ago (more recently than 3000) but that it has always been their homeland and it was only that they lacked the power that other empires had to live there in peace.

Jews had therefore tried to live for 2000 years in any country that would have them, and in spite of being "good" citizens, they were constantly being attacked, merely for refusing to give up their Judaism and convert to whatever religion the natives wanted them to be (usually either Christianity or Islam and primarily the former).

Thus there were Crusades in Germany in the 13th century, Jews were expelled from Spain in the 15th century and there were pogroms in the 19th century and finally the holocaust in the 20th century.

So yes, now Israel has the ability to defend itself and plans to do so when necessary. Although they expanded their territory in 1967, a lot of this was for security reasons and they would plan to give some of it back in exchange for peace. The only problem is, when they actually did that in 2004 they didn't get peace, they got rocket attacks.



AspE
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Dec 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,114

09 Jun 2009, 1:17 pm

Laconvivencia wrote:
AspE wrote:
Quote:
if we relocate the state to Northewrn New Mexico and Saouthern Colorado, there will be opportunity!!
If we keep the Jewish State in Palestine, things would get worse.


Thank God it's not up to anyone but the Israeli people. Things could indeed get worse, with Iran financing Hamas, and Israel soon to be attacking Iran... It would certainly be less trouble to run away, but Jews have been doing that for so long, they are sick of it.


all what the Israelis have to do is to Give Palestine Back to Palestinians, and relocate the Jewish State to Nortern New Mexico and Southern Colorado.

The Palestinians have all the Palestine they are going to get. Israelis would not have a Jewish state in New Mexico (why only desert states?).



Laconvivencia
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,333

09 Jun 2009, 1:35 pm

AspE wrote:
The Palestinians have all the Palestine they are going to get. Israelis would not have a Jewish state in New Mexico (why only desert states?).

Because of Hispanic descendents of Spanish Jews forcibly converted to Catholicism. There is an opportunity to replace our losses from the Holocaust



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

09 Jun 2009, 2:24 pm

Laconvivencia wrote:
I hope Palestine is returned to Palestinians, so we Jews and Muslims can live in peace together like in Islamic Spain,


Jews had Dhimmi status in Andalucia (Muslim Spain). In short they were second class subjects of the caliphate and they lived at the sufferance and permission of the powers that were. They had no rights.

When Spain was attacked by Muslims from North Africa that Jews in Spain were forced to either convert or to leave. For example Moshe b. Maimon (Maimonodes) and his family were forced to emigrate to Egypt. Even though Maimonides lived in Egypt (under the caliphate at Fostat) for over half his life he always signed his written work Ha S'faradi (the Spaniard).

Jews were mistreated in Spain by both Muslims and Christians. Columbus' expedition to find the sea route to the Indies was funded in part, by money looted from the Jews when they were forced to leave Spain the previous year (1491 c.e.). The Catholics gave the Jews the same choice as did the Muslims who conquered Andalucia: convert, leave or die.

ruveyn



Laconvivencia
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,333

10 Jun 2009, 7:15 am

ruveyn wrote:
Laconvivencia wrote:
I hope Palestine is returned to Palestinians, so we Jews and Muslims can live in peace together like in Islamic Spain,


Jews had Dhimmi status in Andalucia (Muslim Spain). In short they were second class subjects of the caliphate and they lived at the sufferance and permission of the powers that were. They had no rights.

When Spain was attacked by Muslims from North Africa that Jews in Spain were forced to either convert or to leave. For example Moshe b. Maimon (Maimonodes) and his family were forced to emigrate to Egypt. Even though Maimonides lived in Egypt (under the caliphate at Fostat) for over half his life he always signed his written work Ha S'faradi (the Spaniard).

Jews were mistreated in Spain by both Muslims and Christians. Columbus' expedition to find the sea route to the Indies was funded in part, by money looted from the Jews when they were forced to leave Spain the previous year (1491 c.e.). The Catholics gave the Jews the same choice as did the Muslims who conquered Andalucia: convert, leave or die.

ruveyn


I would prefer to face these small restrictions, (E.g, Paying a special tax) rather than oppressing other people.