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14 Dec 2022, 10:58 am
14 Dec 2022, 11:28 am
14 Dec 2022, 11:38 am
14 Dec 2022, 2:00 pm
14 Dec 2022, 2:09 pm
14 Dec 2022, 10:26 pm
14 Dec 2022, 10:32 pm
magz wrote:
The importance of Ukraine for USA, Canada, Korea, Australia, etc. is that if there is a successful moving of state borders by force, it opens a whole can of worms worldwide - in particular, it would encourage trying the same on Taiwan and other parts of Pacific.
Which would put USA in a much worse situation and elevate the likelihood of global SHTF.
Which would put USA in a much worse situation and elevate the likelihood of global SHTF.
Tell that to the "Trumpians".
14 Dec 2022, 10:34 pm
kraftiekortie wrote:
NATO, or Ukraine, never had any intention of attacking Russia. Ever.
Putin has a Pan-Russian vision which involves taking back all which was part of the USSR, plus some other adjacent territories, probably including Finland. And imposing an authoritarian regime upon them.
Putin has a Pan-Russian vision which involves taking back all which was part of the USSR, plus some other adjacent territories, probably including Finland. And imposing an authoritarian regime upon them.
Based on what I have heard, The Nato alliance is essentially a defensive one.
Poo-tin is full of shite.
14 Dec 2022, 10:47 pm
Mikah wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Where is the justification for re-creating an illegal and immoral land grab?
The point is that this isn't what this invasion is or how it came about. I know you don't like reading, but if you only ever read one long thing for the rest of your life that article should be what you choose.
If the shoe was on the other foot, and Russia was doing to us (Anglo nations) what we have been doing to them, we would have invaded Ukraine years ago.
Firstly, read what I posted above just now.
I also highlighted pootin's atrocities involving other ex-satellite "states"/countries in other recent posts.
He has always had a "We will make Russia great again" policy, and he has been doing this through imperialistic expansionism that has involved false-flag operations.
"Any excuse will do pootin" is a joke with no credibility.
This is simply my reasoned, considered opinion.
Your ad hominem against me has no justification.
I am not as simple-minded as you are suggesting.
14 Dec 2022, 10:58 pm
Mikah wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
NATO, or Ukraine, never had any intention of attacking Russia. Ever.
It doesn't matter what NATO's true intentions were. If Russia started placing weapons along the Mexico/US border or the Canada/US border, neither you nor the American government would accept a pinky promise from the Kremlin that "it's only for defensive purposes".
Seriously, mate.
Have you not been paying attention to European affairs?
Why did Trump have a tantrum (A Trumptrum, if you will?
) about NATO countries not pulling their weight in defence spending?NATO left the heavy military lifting to the USA (the same way New Zealand is doing with Australia, btw).
Its overall defence budget was pitiful and only increased significantly DUE TO RUSSIAN AGGRESSION!! !
There was "no fight" in the "NATO dog".
How can you not see this?
Nato wanted peace so it could focus on its economy and climate change initiatives, not war.
That Russian psychopath changed all that with the invasion of Ukraine.
Moit, you need to look at the bigger picture.
14 Dec 2022, 11:01 pm
magz wrote:
I declared not to moderate here and I intend to keep this promise but as a member, I can still remind you that personal attacks on other members (i.e. denigrating comments on their intellect) are forbidden by WrongPlanet.net rules.
Erm...
14 Dec 2022, 11:06 pm
Mikah wrote:
magz wrote:
I declared not to moderate here and I intend to keep this promise but as a member, I can still remind you that personal attacks on other members (i.e. denigrating comments on their intellect) are forbidden by WrongPlanet.net rules.
My comment about Pepe? It was not intended as such at all. He has stated in the past that he does not like reading long things and prefers videos where I can find them - but I cannot always accommodate him unfortunately.
Mate, you just can't help yourself, can you?
Moit, the post referred to was a put-down and not the first from you in the limited conversations we have had relatively recently.
(You seem to have a particular problem with me in this thread, btw.
"Curious.")
But it is "water off a duck's back", and I have countered in kind, gently.
14 Dec 2022, 11:11 pm
magz wrote:
Ok, thanks for clarification.
Erm...
It really was a putdown.
But things like that don't worry me.
14 Dec 2022, 11:14 pm
magz wrote:
Back to the topic:
Digging on alternative histories that never happened does not change what is going on on the ground. In particular, it does not change who forcefully violated borders of another state and who didn't do such thing anywhere in this conflict.
And no, Putin in his speeches directly claims to continue the traditions of historical Russian imperialism.
Digging on alternative histories that never happened does not change what is going on on the ground. In particular, it does not change who forcefully violated borders of another state and who didn't do such thing anywhere in this conflict.
And no, Putin in his speeches directly claims to continue the traditions of historical Russian imperialism.
BINGO!
magz wrote:
Here, a translation of a recent speech where he compares himself to Peter the Great, hinting at how historical territorial gains relate to current war: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61767191
This narrative of "uniting Slavs" by conquer is as old as Moscow Empire - and the methods of "uniting" also have not changed much over time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Novgorod
In other words: Plenty of Slavs don't want to be "united" under rule of Moscow, have very bad experiences with it and are ready to fight against it. That includes both Poland and Ukraine. "The West" and USA in particular can respond to it in any way they want (of course we want them to respond in a way we like) but all the time they are just a third party here, such wars were going on in this part of the world before USA even started to exist.
This narrative of "uniting Slavs" by conquer is as old as Moscow Empire - and the methods of "uniting" also have not changed much over time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Novgorod
In other words: Plenty of Slavs don't want to be "united" under rule of Moscow, have very bad experiences with it and are ready to fight against it. That includes both Poland and Ukraine. "The West" and USA in particular can respond to it in any way they want (of course we want them to respond in a way we like) but all the time they are just a third party here, such wars were going on in this part of the world before USA even started to exist.
I think Mikah needs to look at the bigger picture, IMO.
14 Dec 2022, 11:19 pm
magz wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
In truth, it's certainly not in the best interest of most European states to have the Russian Bear as a preeminent presence there.
Just like it's really not in the best interest for NATO to invade Russia.
A Russian with a knowledge of present-day geopolitics should know this.
Just like it's really not in the best interest for NATO to invade Russia.
A Russian with a knowledge of present-day geopolitics should know this.
I'm not sure.
Sentiments for rebuilding the empire were strong in Russia back in 2008 when I travelled there. I heard openly nationalist remarks just casually thrown every now and then, things that would make people at least feel awkward in Europe were just everyday phrases said to just-met new travel mates (an example I remember: "don't buy anything in Kazan, they are Tatars, Tatars have no brains" - "advice" from quite a friendly railroad worker).
From what I know, these sentiments were fed and grew only stronger since then.
You know that people project their own attitudes and feelings on others. With imperialist nationalism being the mainstream in Russia, I don't think people there are aware that many other nations really have different centers of dynamics.
The absolute arrogance of those Russians!
The USSR stole the sovereignty of countries crushed by WWII.
They had no moral right to do that.
It was a situation where "Might makes right".
The absurdity is staggering.
14 Dec 2022, 11:21 pm
kraftiekortie wrote:
I meant, really, that Russia should know that it wouldn't be in the best interest of NATO for it to invade Russia. That any claim that NATO has that interest in mind is worthy of mockery.
I agree, of course, with the "nationalistic" part. Putin wants to restore Soviet Union-type hegemony at its peak---plus he desires the power of the Tsars.
I agree, of course, with the "nationalistic" part. Putin wants to restore Soviet Union-type hegemony at its peak---plus he desires the power of the Tsars.
Hasn't Russia the biggest stockpile of nuclear weapons?
Need I say more?
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