14 dead and 50 injured in mass shooting in Colorado.

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visagrunt
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23 Jul 2012, 2:51 pm

mycats wrote:
The guy had a choice of what to do with whatever circumstances he was dealing with. He had the choice of choosing super hero or super villain. He chose super villain. People have a breaking point. But he chose super villain over super hero. I don't see any point in asking him why he chose evil over good.


The point is that understanding why he made his choice might allow us to prevent someone else from making the same choice.

If criminal justice is to mean anything, we must seek not only to punish crimes that have been committed, but also to do what we can to prevent future crimes from taking place. Since the liberty of the individual cannot unreasonably be constrained, we must turn our attention to the motivations for crime, and look to how we can mitigate those.


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23 Jul 2012, 2:52 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Some sources are saying he had a partner and broke up just before the shooting. Also, I have seen photos of him where he looks quite normal, making the same faces people make when having their picture taken. He sounds like a normal guy having what some people call a midlife crisis only his came early.

Gay or straight partner?
I know being gay would not be a motive, but I'm curious because that would be the first time I've heard of a shooter being gay.


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23 Jul 2012, 3:16 pm

After reading a profile of Holme's background, I believe that kids that doesn't function socially should be placed in a practical work-training program from 7th grade. That would have made his life easier.



biostructure
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23 Jul 2012, 3:39 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Why is the spectrum being mentioned here? I have not heard any media sources mention anything about autism of Asperger's,. Just here. People here quickly want to say this guy has a mental illness or Asperger's when there is no proof of that whatsoever. In fact, if you look at what has been reported so far, the guy has spent most of his life being more normal than most normal people. He has led an exemplary life and has absolutely no record of any misconduct or strangeness. He had friends and now they say he was remote but if he had never committed a crime, would they be saying that? Or would they be saying how smart and what a great guy he is?


They are not saying one instead of the other, they are saying both--that he was a smart, nice guy, but also a loner who seemed to rarely interact with friends or have girlfriends.

Being atypical doesn't mean not being exemplary or having records of misconduct. Most weirdness isn't, in fact, bad (at least in this sense). What I'm concerned about is that his success may have been masking severe emotional and developmental weaknesses. History abounds with geniuses who were exemplary in their fields, and well-intentioned in general, but who were also deeply troubled inside.

Someone who grows up being always "the genius" may feel that he is not exactly invincible, but exempt from some of the troubles and weaknesses of mankind. If he was ahead since being a very young child, he might not even have any awareness of a time when he "chose" this view of himself, it could have been more just his reality. Maybe he even showed episodes of disturbed emotion as a little kid, but this was written off as him being "special" or excused because he was otherwise exemplary. This is just speculation based on my own experiences, but I could easily see this having happened.

Then, if he no longer felt his exemplary talent got him what he needed in life, he could have felt an "identity vacuum". Someone in the courtroom said he looked like a "pathetic freak", and if that was the identity he had been made to assume when his academic career began to fail, one can look at the shooting as his attempt to be what others wanted him to be, yet the most powerful, self-respecting form of that freak identity he could be.



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23 Jul 2012, 4:02 pm

Meanwhile, in Africa....


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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23 Jul 2012, 4:04 pm

John_Browning wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Some sources are saying he had a partner and broke up just before the shooting. Also, I have seen photos of him where he looks quite normal, making the same faces people make when having their picture taken. He sounds like a normal guy having what some people call a midlife crisis only his came early.

Gay or straight partner?
I know being gay would not be a motive, but I'm curious because that would be the first time I've heard of a shooter being gay.

I'm not sure if there's some repressed homosexuality since he was looking for both males and females on Adultfriendfinders.



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23 Jul 2012, 8:28 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Some sources are saying he had a partner and broke up just before the shooting. Also, I have seen photos of him where he looks quite normal, making the same faces people make when having their picture taken. He sounds like a normal guy having what some people call a midlife crisis only his came early.

Gay or straight partner?
I know being gay would not be a motive, but I'm curious because that would be the first time I've heard of a shooter being gay.

I'm not sure if there's some repressed homosexuality since he was looking for both males and females on Adultfriendfinders.


Isn't that bisexuality?


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23 Jul 2012, 8:29 pm

Even spree killers get laid more often than me?
That's depressing. And I'm serious right now.



ValentineWiggin
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23 Jul 2012, 8:49 pm

HisDivineMajesty wrote:
Even spree killers get laid more often than me?
That's depressing. And I'm serious right now.


Maybe if your face wasn't so serious?
Kings are intimidating, especially divine ones.


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23 Jul 2012, 9:15 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
An honest statement about James Holmes? He had a good life but he's just a psychopath.

Most psychopaths have a history of bad behavior though. They don't usually do well academically, not due to lack of intelligence but lack of patience and discipline. They usually report feeling "bored" or "empty" when not engaging in risky or outright predatory behavior. It seems so strange for someone to suddenly have a drive to do something so evil without any prior hints at all. But maybe he always lacked a conscience and was merely held back from acting out out of fear of the consequences, until something disappointed him so much that he no longer felt he had anything to lose.



steviewonderau
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24 Jul 2012, 12:31 am

The culture of violence and guns in america is partially to blame for this incident as well as the perpetrator of the crime.
american politicians have their hands tied and they will not do anything in regards to gun control laws to help prevent future crimes like this from occurring in the future.

The American constitutional states the universal right to own guns is ingrained in America and supported by American law/constitution, conservatives and libertarians. The calls by liberals for gun control and restrictions will fall on deaf ears because the politicians have their hands tied and can not change the American constitution.



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24 Jul 2012, 4:02 am

biostructure wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
biostructure wrote:
heavenlyabyss wrote:
The fact that he never had any arrests before this event just means he was probably an intellectual narcissist. When his intelligence proved useless, he systematically and deliberately devised a plot to gain infamy. The more I watch about it, the more painfully obvious it becomes.


But isn't this something us on the spectrum are all prone to? Just imagine, for instance, Sheldon from The Big Bang Theory. What if he hadn't had the friends he did, or the supportive mother? I could see him doing something like this, if he became misunderstood enough. Of course, that show is a comedy, so they would never let this happen.


I don't know I am not an intellectual narcissist, but I am sure having aspergers does not make one immune to being one.


I'm not sure we have the same idea of what an "intellectual narcissist" is, but by my understanding, I'm surprised that it's not like 90% of aspies who are intellectual narcissists. I certainly often feel that I am one.

The way I see it, if one is very different from others, there are two ways of going about things--believing in yourself and that others are wrong (or at least, that the mainstream is no more right than you, and should accept you), or believing that your only worth is in your ability to conform. If you define narcissists as those who have intrinsic desire to harm others, then most of those who take that first path are not included. But if you include those who merely feel special/gifted, and fight back against those who would try and put them down for non-conformity, then I'd think that would be very common among aspies.

Would you consider Benoit Mandelbrot an "intellectual narcissist"? No shooting up theaters by him, certainly, but clearly there were some tensions between him and others over his uniqueness.


I don't know, I was just speaking out of my you know what.

My opinion has changed in the past couple days. I don't really see sociopath in him anything. I see him as either deluded or helpless.

I was talking about malignant narcissism, not the kind of narcissism where a person simply knows they are smarter than others objectively. This really isn't narcissism in my view. Yes, I create my own definitions.



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24 Jul 2012, 4:07 am

jojobean wrote:
I hear alot of people on cnn boards and elsewhere wondering if he is paranoid schizophrenic. I seriously doubt that because people with PS are very illogical if best and would not have the logical capacity to rig up the appartment like he did.
As for a motive....some things dont need explanation. Evil is evil, period.

Also all this talk about him being introverted and keeps to himself is getting under my skin cause nearly everytime there is a mass killer, the first thing news anchors say is "He was quiet and keeps to himself" Unfortunately this stimatizes introverts as mass killers. I hear people say, "its always the quiet ones you know"

urrrg.


I think PS is unlikely for the reasion you mention, however some sort of psychosis such as psychotic depression or manic psychosis is a possibility. The third possibility is SSRI-induced mania/homicidal thoughts, which have been documented in a few previous cases. It is rare but it does happen.

I know from experience that it is possible to earn straight a's and b's in school while hearing voices continuously and believing that people are plotting against you. The difference between me and the shooter is I never wanted revenge. And I do think I would come to my senses before I snapped entirely.

I have never reached that "obliterative" state of mind.

I made a post about the concept of pseudocommanders. No one responded but my guess is this is the kind of state of mind he is was in for one reason or another. Perhaps he felt he was being mercilessly persecuted when in fact no one even paid any attention to him.

I can relate to this - everything but the homicidal thoughts.



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24 Jul 2012, 5:03 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
jojobean wrote:
I hear alot of people on cnn boards and elsewhere wondering if he is paranoid schizophrenic. I seriously doubt that because people with PS are very illogical if best and would not have the logical capacity to rig up the appartment like he did.
As for a motive....some things dont need explanation. Evil is evil, period.

Also all this talk about him being introverted and keeps to himself is getting under my skin cause nearly everytime there is a mass killer, the first thing news anchors say is "He was quiet and keeps to himself" Unfortunately this stimatizes introverts as mass killers. I hear people say, "its always the quiet ones you know"

urrrg.


I think PS is unlikely for the reasion you mention, however some sort of psychosis such as psychotic depression or manic psychosis is a possibility. The third possibility is SSRI-induced mania/homicidal thoughts, which have been documented in a few previous cases. It is rare but it does happen.

I know from experience that it is possible to earn straight a's and b's in school while hearing voices continuously and believing that people are plotting against you. The difference between me and the shooter is I never wanted revenge. And I do think I would come to my senses before I snapped entirely.

I have never reached that "obliterative" state of mind.

I made a post about the concept of pseudocommanders. No one responded but my guess is this is the kind of state of mind he is was in for one reason or another. Perhaps he felt he was being mercilessly persecuted when in fact no one even paid any attention to him.

I can relate to this - everything but the homicidal thoughts.


Ted Kaczynski, makes this guy look sane in comparison as to how he handled himself in his trial, but he was a Harvard graduate and a professor diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. He refused to acknowledge mental illness, which may be the case for Holmes as well.

If so, it would almost be impossible to provide an adequate defense, however I don't think he comes close to meeting the level of intelligence that Kaczynski had in defending his assertion that he was not mentally ill.

The hardest part of schizophrenia, can be not being able to admit one has a problem, but Kacyzynski was a rare case of schizophrenia, in that it did not destroy his ability for communication well through adulthood, without treatment, even though his actions and rationale for those actions were not rational, per most people's idea of reality.



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24 Jul 2012, 6:56 am

Only 1 successful insanity case out of 35,000 insanity pleas in Colorado cases.
That is a very poor record, virtually 0% success rate and almost 100% failure rate. Insanity defense simply does not work in Colorado.

The insanity defense will not work in Colorado and rarely does the insanity defense work in the US.



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24 Jul 2012, 8:52 am

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
persian85033 wrote:
I know yahoo is not the best source, but I just read that he didn't say anything while he was in court. Just kind of fell asleep a few times. :?

There's actual video of him sitting in the court room with his eyes drooping and him slumping over with head bowed.


Makes sense. For a while, I was actually thinking that he was suffering from microsleep episodes.

Oddly the thing I find freakiest about this guy is that he had almost nothing online, no facebook, nothing. Just a myspace with no friends except the founder who everyone has to be friends with. I don't know why, but that's what I found freakiest.


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